Genealogy Chat

Hi Michael, You could find that the elder of the children could be born under another surname ,thats why you have had problems finding the births,,,,,,,,,when she married George they then changed /or took on the name of Davie.... So the eldest may prove difficult to find if he is under another surname,,but -Holmes is a good starting point,,,,,,,, If the first husband had been a mariner possible in that part.then it wasnt unusual to be wed/and widowed in weeks/months,sometime widow already pregnant,,,taken on by another man so child ends up with new husbands name..... Maybe Free/////bdm can throw up death of William Henry Holmes/ One listed -William Henry Holmes----age 21,,,died 1896,,but in Midhurst,,,,west sussex,,,not far from Hampshire boarder???? kay

Hi Kay, Thanks for your input. That may be a good idea. Thinking back many, many moons ago, when I met my uncle George, (the only time that I did), I seem to remember that he was a bit 'different' from the other siblings. The men were about five foot ten/eleven and stocky whereas George seemed to have been a shade taller and gaunt. The women of the line were broad hipped and 'mother earth' type. So yes, you could be on to something there. Of course it may just be the old memory playing up again, but there is only one way of finding out. The birth cert. will slot into the files anyway, so it will not be cash wasted if that leads to a dead end. Thanks a lot. I will act on that next week. Regards, Mick Davie.

Michael, Have you concidered buying the eldest birth certificate ,,it may reveal another name other than along with , Bennett?which was dropped on later childrens birth certificate's Kay.

Hello folks, This is so very good of you all. Kay, Greetings. I had to make notes on the questions asked so that I could refer to them as I do this. To your first question I have put 'well...yes, maybe ???.' Further to that I have written :- She, (Sarah Rebecca), was 23yrs old when she had her first child, George b1898. So if she wore out this William Henry Holmes in two or three years, then met my paternal g/father....yes, possible. A direction that I have not yet tried. That could explain the 'getting together'. At the other end of the relationship I wonder if she 'did a runner' and went back to the 'Holmes' name. Certainly worth looking at. Many thanks for your input. I have tried all ways regarding the mis-transcription by the way. I have been plugging away at this for over two years now. (OOOH my head hurts !!) Merry, I tend to agree with you about the lady from Derbyshire. A really long shot, put it down to desperation setting in. Thanks again for your thoughts on this. I am printing them all out and will be following them up. Gwyneth, A Mrs Henry, a neighbour brought dad up. Dad did take me to meet her when I was very young. (she made lovely bread pudding, but I diversify). He referred to her as 'mum'. I was about five then, so did not really take things in. Dad lied about his age to join the army early. I only found this out after his death, (ten coming up eleven years ago). I knew he had been in the army, but I thought it was National service that he had done, or wartime duties. Dads brothers and sisters lived locally, but they were never a close family. I did know his brother Albert quite well, I knew his sisters by sight, I do not know if they ever recognised me. Whilst fishing with dad in the docks one day, I would have been about seven then, he, (dad), started to talk to a chap. After a time he called me over and said 'I bet you don,t know who this is'.. I answered 'no'. He then said 'this is your uncle George'. We said our hello,s then I went back to the fishing. That was the only time I ever met him. They are all gone now. I have a cousin, Alberts daughter, but she knows nothing about the paternal g/parents either. When dad was in the Army, after he found out whatever he did about his mother, he used his future father-in laws address and my (to be) mother as next of kin. The witnesses on mum and dad,s marraige cert are her future sister in law ,(her brothers wife to be), Dorothy Noice, and Jack Nash, who, I understand at one time was an 'old flame' of mothers. Re Para (4). Starting 'at the back' and coming forward. John Davie and Sarah Hewett, (yep ! another one ), had George Henry Davie. George Henry Davie married Fanny Hewett. June 1st 1868 Parish Church of St. Mary. Southampton. Witnesses to the union were William Hewett, (same name as her father, but maybe a brother), and Mary Ann Hewett. Thats all folks. My heads buzzing, and they are my family, how all of you feel I do not know !!. Thanks for all the input. I certainly have a few more avenues to explore. I was getting rather 'tunnel visioned' about it. Regards to you all, and thanks again for your help. We who set these 'posers' do appreciate the feedback, be assured. Mick Davie.

I'm still thinking too! ... What is it with these Southampton folk? I have a death certificate of my great grandfather, who died there. That has his sister in law as the informant too. ... I also had folk in Bevois Street... but at a different time. Anyway, on with the case.... Do you have any idea of addresses where any of the children lived, - perhaps from later marriage entries in parish records or similar. What about your father. Did he marry/ join services etc. from an address that he had lived at for some time? What I was thinking was that he was still young when his father died. Who was named on his school log entry in the parent's column, I wonder. I realise that there are dozens of schools in Southampton. How can we find out? Do the witnesses to your parents marriage give clues.'Adoptive' parents perhaps?

So you have the husband's death cert (1917) and the death wasn't registered by Rebecca so no clues there. that's one door shut then. The other death cert I ws refering to is the one you have found in the 1950's (I think, without refering back to your original post) for Rebecca Davie. personally, I don't think that this is going to be her (gut feeling) as she most likely would have either married or lived with someone during the years between and taken on a different surname. If you wanted to check out this person who died in the 50's, you would have to buy the death cert. Then you could possibly find out more about the person via the electoral rolls (available via the library local to her normal address - they might respond to an email enquiry - depends on the library!) once you knew their normal address from the death cert. To be honest, if it were me, I probably wouldn't take this route, as I don't think it's her (and would therefore be a waste of £7). I really think she could be virtually untracable unless there is some clue in someone's memory - and it doesn't sound as if there are any further clues to be had. I'm still thinking about it! Merry

I'm lost on the ...and (4) paragraph. Please could you clarify. Are we talking BENNETT or HEWETT?

Have you looked for George Albert Davie marrying her under another name????she could have been a widow???? a Sarah Rebecca Bennett married Hampshire 1894---William Henry Holmes---Registered Droxford September 1/4.... Sarah then would be 19ish,,,,, Also concider surname -Davie being mistranscribed as -Davis in the marriages,,,,,, Kay.

Hi Merry, (Did I hear someone groan then ?). Having probably bored Gwyneth to tears, it is now your turn !!. I do, really, appreciate your replies and suggestions. I will go through the questions etc in the order that you asked them. My father was the youngest, George b1898 ; Albert b1900 ; Rose b1906 ; Ann b1908. You picked her up ok on the 1901 census, with husband George and the two boys. As you said already ''married''. I have no idea why they never married. As I mentioned, it seemed to be a 'tabbo' subject, (talking about my paternal g/parents I mean.). I think my father must have found out whilst he was in the army. I say this because in his army pay book, where it has 'next of kin', the page has REALLY been scrawled over, as if someone in a real fit of pique, has gone berserk. Now, if he did that in his army book, when he was aged about 19 (ish), I reckon that, if the other siblings knew of the marital state twix their parents, they had kept it from dad. I can think of no event around 1930, (ish again), that would explain him finding out then. I agree that another man may have been involved, No evidence re that though. The GeorgeBucknell that you mentioned. I have traced, on the 1851 census, George Bucknole, (spellings right this time !!), b1840 Bridport. A mariner, I have his death as Sept 1/4, 1890, Southampton. He wed, in 1868, Ann Wincie .......(surname unknown) b1840. One wonders if they met at the local 'silly middle names club', A Monty Python-esque scene comes to mind!!. I can find no trace of them having been born where they said, viz, Bridport. They are 'missing' on most of the Census returns. Also, I cannot tie them in with the father of George Henry Davie, who, according to (G H D,s), marriage cert. was John Davie, a carpenter. Not long after George BuckNOLE died, a child was born and given the name George BuckNELL. But, as yet, I have no proof that they are anything to do with 'our' tree. I will go, yet again, to the Southampton Archives to have another look. I may have missed something. I did not realize that some marriages do not make it as far as the GRO. Something new learnt every day !!. Thanks for that. I have not tried the electoral roll, but, I am willing to. How do I go about that ?. I would love to get the death cert, but if I do not know when or where, (or even who she was at the time), she died, is this possible ??. I do have her husbands D.C. but not a great deal of info on there. (see the answer to Gwyneth.). Thats about all, Merry. I would thank you for your time, and the same to anybody, and evertbody, that responds. Regards to all Mick Davie. Phew ! Enid Blyton wrote less!!

Hi again folks, Sorry to have kept you all waiting, and thankyou so much for your replies. As all was a bit of a rush this morning may I go through, and answer where possible, your replies again. Gwyneth in Kent, Hi, I know nothing at all about this lady, before or after she 'left'. The only clues that I have about her having ever existed are, (1), Her birth cert. Thus :- Registration District :- Southampton ; No. 177 ; When and where born :- Third May 1875. Sholing Hound ; Sex :- girl ; Name, and surname of father :- Thomas Bennett ; Name, surname and maiden surname of mother :- Fanny Hooper ; Occupation of father :- Private Royal Marines ; Signature, description and residence of informant :- X The mark of Fanny Bennett, Mother, Sholing Hound ; When registered :-Twelfth June 1875 ; Signature of registrar :- William Henry Goodridge, Registrar. And (2), My fathers birth cert. Thus :-When and where born....23rd June 1911. 19 Guildford Street UD; Name if any :- William ; Sex :- Boy ; Name and surname of father :-George Albert Davie ; Name, surname and maiden surname of mother :- Rebecca DAVIE, formerly BENNETT ; Occupation of father :- Stevedore ; Signature, description and residence of informant :- R Davie, Mother, 19 Guildford Street, Southampton ; When registered :- Ninth August 1911 ; Signature of registrar :- Alfred Thomas Burt, Registrar. And (3), Census returns. And (4) What I have gleaned off of Ancestry, Freebmd and LDSfamilysearch, also tried loads of other, rather obscure sites. Sarah Rebecca,s parents were George Henry Davie age 24, (when he married), a bachelor, Carpenter Living at Bevois St. His father, John Davie, Carpenter. Her mother was Fanny Hewett age 26, Spinster, living at Twyford. Her father was William Hewett, a Bricklayer. This Marriage Cert is dated June 1st 1868., and signed in the presence of William Hewett and Mary Ann Hewett. I have no death certificate, I do not know where or when she died. I have tried the PRO at Winchester for both, the marriage and death cert; no joy. I have no idea when Sarah Rebecca left Southampton, (or even if she did). I am just going by my fathers dob and the split up of the family in 1917 when George Albert Davie died. They were still at 19 Guildford St. then. (I have his death cert). I do not know where he is buried. The informant is interesting, E E E Davie, Sister-in-law. I have not been able to find out anything about her either. I have just gotten to your info re the Sarah 'B' that was married in Droxford. I will chase that one up. Thankyou. Bearing in mind what Merry has said about them, I shall go 'cap in hand' and wallet to the forefront, to the Bereavement Services. Right Gwyneth, (hope your not asleep by now !!), I will post this then get back to Merry. Relatives.....Who needs 'em ?. Regards Mick D.

I think you are absolutely right! ....and I think Michael MUST get the 1917 death cert, if he doesn't already have it..... Merry

It was some time ago(years) that I contacted them and they couldn't have been more helpful. I actually offered money as I was so pleased with what they found for me, but they refused. .... Perhaps over the years there have just been too many requests.

Last time I contacted Soton Bereavement Services, they wanted money and a letter to do a look up, if you dared mention those swear words, ''Family History''. So watch out!! Mind you that was probably two years ago. Before that they were ever-helpful! Merry

Do you have the 1917 death certificate? I just wondered who was the informant hoping to establish whether or not Rebecca was still around. Do you know where he is buried? If you contact Southampton City Council Bereavement Services Unit, 6, Bugle Street, Southampton, SO14 2AJ Telephone 023 80 228609 they may be able to help. They have computer logged records detailing cemetery, plot and grave numbers. The records I received also gave burial date, age and address of deceased. They can also tell you if someone else is in the same grave. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a good one Gwyneth...... Merry

With regard to the possible reg for George. You should try phoning Southampton registry office and ask them if they will check the mother's maiden surname for you. They are usually extremely helpful! Another thought....Southampton Archives have record cards of marriages and my hubby thinks they come forward as far as 1900. It's possible your couple DID marry, but the entry didn't make it to the GRO. The record cards are only for religious marriages, so wouldn't cover one at the reg office, but might be worth a try. I realise non eof this is going to help trace what happened to Rebecca later. It's easier to eliminate someone than say it is ''the one''. The death reg you saw....if you were to get the certificate and therefore the persons address, you could try the electoral roll for the address and see who else was there. From this information you might be able to work something out......but I still think it likely she would have changed her surname. Merry

Still thinking on this as I had a Rebecca Bennett, who gave me problems! I don't know if this is anything to do with your person but I noted on freebmd that a Rebecca Sarah BENNETT married in Droxford area in Sept. Q. 1894. That isn't that far from your family in 1901.

Hi again, Missed the bus so will have to wait for the next one. Meanwhile....... I don,t know if that is my uncle georges birth cert that you are refering to. The 'Bucknell' part. I have been down that road, A George BUCKNOLE Davie, b Bridport 1840, wed Ann Wincie (surname unknown), again b Bridport 1840. He died a time before the Goerge BUCKNELL that you mentioned was born. Perhaps the parents of the later decided to name him after the g/father but got the spelling wrong, (it has been known, see above !!!) However without Rebecca,s input I cannot place them correctly Hope I have explained that ok. All in a rush. See you later. Regards, Mick D.

Is this the first-born's birth reg? Births Jun 1898 Davie George Bucknell Southampton 2c 40 Do you know where that name Bucknell comes from? Do you have his birth cert? Merry

Gwyneth mentioned a birth in Loughborough with the same parental surnames. However, it's too close to your dad's birth to be any connection (the following quarter!) The thing that bothers me is that if she never married George....why not??? (there usually ends up being a reason) and if she left the family home isn't she likely to have taken up with another man at some point and so died with a different surname?? (but maybe again without a formal marriage) Merry