Genealogy Chat

Durham CC came up trumps again, 2 certs waiting when I got home... Birth - William Stirrip, mother Martha Stirrup no maiden name, a line through the fathers name and occupation. Eleanor A Stirrups marriage is Eleanor (Ellen) Avery Stirrup, father again listed as John Avery Stirrup (deceased). If Pam is right, the cert I ordered today from the GRO has him dying in 1867. Wonder if Martha's children knew they were illigitimate? Wonder if they thought John Avery really was their father, maybe he was! Why is his wife not living with him on the 1861 census???? I'd love to get to the bottom of this one. Brenda

Brenda Thanks for the update. I expect if you're like me, that the certs will raise as many questions as they answer!!! nell

Another update, just for Nell! The lady on this site (Pamela) I had contacted has been very helpful, she has identified three Stirrup families in the small village of Burtonwood in Lancashire, all having their own children around the same time, all listed as farmers. She thinks they might be brothers. She gave me a link to a Lancashire parish site where I found 8 siblings for Martha, as well as the births of the other Stirrup families. Moving on a bit, I found Mary Avery was lodging with some one else in the 1861 census, when her husband John was still lodging with Martha Stirrup. Pam has also found John Averys death reference and today I think I found Martha's. I'm ordering both from the GRO to see who reported the deaths, but I usually have to wait 3 - 4 weeks for any cert I order from them. At least the ones I ordered from Durham CC should come this week. Cheers, Brenda

Nell - I also forgot to say that I found a Mary Ann Stirrup born in Burtonwood, Lancs in 1818 on this site, so I sent a message to the tree owner. Hopefully there's a connection there. Wishful thinking but I'm hoping it may be Martha's sister! Brenda

Keep us informed! So many mysteries just vanish and we never find out if they were sorted or not. nell

Think I've found Williams birth cert from Durham County Council online site, mistranscribed as William Stirrip, born 1845, Durham Northern. Just ordered it, so 6 nail biting days to wait! Also, on the same site, I found a marriage cert for an Eleanor A Stirrup in 1873... so I went looking for her on the 1871 census, and came up with Ellen A Stirrup, born Melton Mowbray - so she was still single in 1871... it could be her marriage in 1873 then. Brenda

Brenda When you've sorted it out, come back and tell us what's what and who's who, will you?! nell

WOW! Do you want to do the rest of my tree??????? I'm leaving work now, will be pounding the IGI when I get home! Thanks for everything! Brenda

Nell, go to bed! Lol! Brenda

However, MARTHA STIRRUP Female Event(s): Christening: 28 NOV 1813 Burtonwood, Lancashire, England Parents: Father: WILLIAM STIRRUP Mother: ALICE nell

There's a Burtonwood in Lancashire, but no Avery or Stirrup births on IGI there. nell

Shirley, do you think the “Linkishire” is Lincolnshire? I hadn’t thought of that, although in the 1851 it’s quite clearly Lancashire, of course, that could only be what the enumerator thought he heard. The only Burntwood (as a place name) that I can find is in Staffordshire! Going round in circles! Brenda

dont know if its any use to you, but I bet its lincolnshire not lancashire.

Quite a mystery Nell et all! Maybe Martha is Johns sister, they were both Avery’s… Martha married a John Stirrup and gave all their children Avery as a middle name as Rob suggests, I’ve seen this before too. Oh, wait, on Jane’s wedding certificate she lists her fathers name as John Avery Stirrup!!, so where did he get his Avery from? Oh well, something to think about on the journey home from work. Last time I had something this juicy to mull over I drove right past my exit on the freeway and it took me an extra 20 minutes to get home!! Brenda

Also from IGI John Avery Male Event(s): Birth: Christening: 27 OCT 1793 Lanchester, Durham, England Parents: Father: John Avery Family Mother: Jane Saunders or Sanderson nell

Some families, like my Mothers, used to give the mothers maiden name as a middle name. Hence Margaret Edgecombe Pithers. Her mother was Gladys Edgecombe. I think therefore it is quite possible Martha was previously an Avery. That's my twopenneth, anyway, All the best, Rob

Martha and mary are sisters??

I can't work out how John Avery is related to the Avery Stirrup lot though. Martha A S appears to be the illegitimate child of Martha Stirrup and I would suspect that Avery is some kind of clue to her father's name. Could John Avery be the father of all these children, and his wife Mary put up with them because she had no children of her own? Martha Stirrup seems to have had several children and no way of supporting them, which is why she is lodging with the Averys. But I don't know why she was in Kent for Martha A S birth and then moved up north. Or maybe she is John's sister, and married a Mr Stirrup who died, or who she left/left her before she gave birth to her daughter? No, it doesn't sound likely to me either!!! nell

From the IGI: MARY AVERY STIRRUP Female Event(s): Christening: 25 OCT 1835 Strood Near Rochester, Kent, England Parents: Mother: MARTHA STIRRUP nell

Yup, I think a marriage or a birth certificate is the way to go. Had a quick look at Freebmd and Durham County Council sites, didn't come up with anything but there are more options yet. Nell - Thanks so much for the extra information, you always go way beyond and it's appreciated. Thanks all, Brenda