Genealogy Chat

My ancester, Anne John, lived all her life in Sageston, Carew, Pembrokeshire. she never married, and in the 1901 census was aged 59. I have hit a brick wall with her as I can't find any record of her death. I have checked the records until she would have been 103 years old but still nothing. I have tried spelling her name as Ann or Annie but still nothing. I phoned the Pembrokeshire records office and they said that , according to the electorol rolls, she was still living in the house in 1906 but was not listed in 1907. The family said that she didn't marry and she didn't emigrate. Is is possible that her death wasn't registered? SRB

I guess it's possible that the one the Records Office found was this one. Deaths Jun 1907 JOHN Ann 44 Pembroke 11a 647 I see that the person above her in the GRO index has the same name and was also aged 44 ... perhaps the person who compiled the index somehow made a mistake with her age. NB: She wouldn't be on electoral rolls as women didn't get the vote until c1919

shirley i am no good with geography so is, Brigend, Llanelly or Merthy T anywhere near Pembrokeshire? if so i have her....MOE!

Shirley It should be registered as it became compulsary to do so at the beginning of 1875. If you've tried all internet sites it's possible that her registration wasn't sent to the General Records Office, which means a trawl through local records office to find her. I'm having a similar problem with one of my rellies. Joy

These are from Family Relatives..... Surname Forename AAD District Page No Event Quarter Year 1 John Ann 44 Pembroke.11a 647 Death 2 1907 2 John Ann 80 Pembroke.11a 2125 Death 4 1918 3 John Anne 81 Pembroke.11a 1308 Death 4 1919 4 John Annie Pembroke.11a 1333 Death 4 1916 Numbers 2 and 3 look possible......59 in 1901 would be late 70's in 1918/1919, but both are Q4, so might include one extra birthday..........My gran added 4 years once she approached 80.....! Merry (PS No 4 would be aged 0)

shirley, i will add this because the name/age and vol numbers match what you are searching for; JOHN ANN 66 LLanelly jan/feb/mar 1906 vol 11a page 649 ...MOE!

Thanks for the replies. The Pembrokeshire records office had a list of who was living at the house in 1906 and they said that she was there (she lived alone). But it was an entirely different name in 1907. They said that the returns for each year were completed in the October of the previous year, so it looks like she wasn't there in October 1906. Isn't it frustrating that we can't get the next census until 1911! In 1906 she would have been 65 years old. I have tried the possibility that the numbers were transposed - one death entry showed an Anne John as being 68 when my Anne would have been 86, but no luck. She had a son , Walter James John who, in 1906, was living in Swansea. I have checked the Swansea death entries for the period until the 1930s in case she went to live with his family, but none of them are her. On a geographical note, Carew, Pembs is in south west Wales. Llanelli is just to the West of Swansea, but Bridgend is to the east . I have been stumbling about on this for over a year - its so frustrating. I am grateful for all your suggestions. SRB

It's possible that she died in a different registration district, if she had gone to a hospital, or to be cared for by a friend/relative. I think you could try asking the Pembroke Records office to check the burial register for 1906/7 to see if she is buried. If they can find a record of her burial, then she is definitely dead! Norfolk records office checked a burial for my great-grandfather and told me that he'd died in Finchley, although he was buried in a Norfolk village. I couldn't understand why I couldn't find his death registered in a Norfolk reg district. nell

I hadn't applied for the Ann John in Llanelli in 1906 - I thought it was too early for her. But then again if the data for the 1906 electoral roll was taken in October 1905, then it could fit if she died between October 1905 and October 1906. I don't know why she should be living in Llanelli, but then again I checked Swansea, Cardiff, Pontypridd, Bridgend etc etc etc, so you never know. Maybe, as it was suggested, she was in a hospital or home there. Thanks to you all for your brilliant suggestions. SRB

Maybe when she vanished from the electoral roll, she just moved house (maybe to live with a rellie?), rather than dying? Merry

I've forgotten now, the circumstances under which women appeared on the electoral roll in those days????? Can anyone else enlighten me? Merry

I checked the Ann John who died in Llanelli but it wasn't her. Good try, but no cigar. Any other suggestions please? ShirleyB

Have you tried the 1918 and 1919 ones?? I know she vanished from an address in (um, whenever you said....1906??)....but that doesn't mean she died.....she might have moved house! Merry

She may have moved house, thats true, Merry. But I have searched the death indices several times and can't find any record of her death anywhere up until she would have been 103 years old (in both Wales and England). I have checked areas in Wales where she might have been likely to move to, ie Swansea where her son lived and everywhere else in Wales, but nothing. I have checked the indices of people with similarly spelt names too. I can't imagine that she would have left the house she lived in for 50-60 years for no reason. I have checked the parish records and visited the local cemetary. Nothing. Its so bewildering. I wish that I didn't have to wait til 2011 for the next census, but it looks like I have met a dead end for the moment. Thanks to everyone for your replies and help. ShirleyB

Sorry Merry, missed the first part of your message. I checked the death for Ann John in Swansea in 1918 (3 1136) but it wasn't her. The two deaths you gave me in 1918 and 1919 give the age as 80 and 81 whereas my Anne would have been 76 and 77 respectively (some 4 years younger). Could the ages be registered wrongly? I thought they would be pretty accurate. Regards ShirleyB

Hi Shirley, The age on death certs is probably one of the most UNreliable. As the information is always given to the registrar by a third person - only the deceased really knows how old they were. If the person registering the death did not know her very well, or even not at all, the would have probably guessed! So try the ones that seem too old - you never know! I know just how frustrating this is! Have the same problem with one of ours. He was on the 1871 census, last child born 1872, and no sign of him after that. Wife's death cert shows her as a widow when she died in 1895. Daughter's marr cert claims father deceased in 1890 (but she lied about just everything!) Have never found his death entry. Been looking on and off for 3yrs!! Good luck Debbie

Women did not start to get the vote until 1918 but I wonder if a women who was householder would be recorded anyway on the register but with no entitlement to vote? MB

I think maybe they were listed, Martin, because the Pembrokeshire record office said she was there in 1906, and she lived alone. They said that in 1907 it was someone else entirely. ShirleyB

Never rely on an age unless its from their birth certificate! The first ancestor I found was my Grandmother who had consistently lied about her age form her marriage onwards. Consequently her birth was 3 years earlier than I expected. I spent God knows how long in the FRC trying to find her birth (first visit as well) that I let out a whoop of joy when I found her. Of course, if I'd known then how elusive the rest of them would prove, I'd have given up this hobby (obsession) then and there!

Hi again! I agree the age at deaths for the 1918 and 1919 deaths don't fit exactly, though you could add on one more year to her post-1901 age if her birthday fell between March 31st and end of September (so she would be ''only'' three years adrift!). Age at death is pretty unreliable. My gran added four years when she turned 76, because she wanted to say, ''I'm 80'' and everyone else say, ''Never!! I wouldn't have believed it''............We were not supposed to notice this! Mind you, we still put the right age on her death cert, but others might have been duped - would depend on who registered the death. You said this lady never married.....maybe you could use this as a checking point? Most married ladies/widows would have ''wife of'' or ''widow of'' in the occupation box. Merry