Genealogy Chat

Hi, My Grandmother died before I was born and my surviving family do not know anything about her parents - so I am trying to trace her. People say that Lee is a Gipsy name and so may not have been covered by the Census - is that true? The thing is I can't seem to find her by the normal means I am using - compounded by the problem that I can't seem to get my head around which district merseyside towns came under all that time ago - hoping that the proffessionals on this site may be able to help? fornames MARJORIE BREMNER maiden name LEE born c1923 in WALLASEY (which is now in merseyside) She married my Grandfather - Leslie Norman BOUGHTON in about 1948 They had 3 Children - John, Jean and Lynne Would like it if you could tell me her parents names?

you need to look on site 1837 and find her birth registration. her birth cert will have both parents names- i believe even a gypsy has to register a birth. alternatively find her marriage registration- that will give you her fathers name and occupation

I know it's a different subject but I am trying to find out about my father's real father who he never knew who I think was called Albert Lee from West Yorkshire. I don't suppose you have found any of your ancestors in that area have you?

I don't think Lee is a name particularly associated with Romany families - maybe the person who told you that is thinking of 'Gipsy Rose Lee' a famous stripper! If you get her marriage cert it might have her father's name on it, and possibly his occupation which might be a clue as to whether or not they were a travelling family. Father's name would also be a checking point on any certs you might find in the index. Also, if she died after 1969 her birthplace and date of birth should be on her death cert, although this is not always accurate. How sure are you that she was born in Merseyside? nell

Hi Yes, Lee is a Romany Gypsy name. I have been researching my Lee gypsies for quite a few years now. Mine come from Kent and East London (West Ham) They tended to marry their cousins. They rarely ever registered a birth, seldom registered a marriage, usually registered a death, but ALWAYS baptised their children. They are usually in the census's, living in 'tents' or 'caravans' with occupations like Hawker, Pegmaker, Basket maker, Chair bottomer. They usually did seasonal work on farms like fruit-picking, then the occupation is ag-lab, or if it was winter they would just take up casual work wherever they were camping, so then the occupation would be labourer. I only have my main 'Lee' line on this tree, but on my computer I have 751 Lee descendants & 261 spouses, down through eleven generations. Unfortunatly, I wouldn't be able to help you much, as mine are all in the South of England. Sandra

Jonathan, hi. It wouldnt surprise me if there was gypsy blood in the LEE family. My wifes granddparents were LEE and in his lifetime from 1848 to 1889 THOMAS her g/grandfather travelled all over the UK, born in MANCHESTER, went to live in BIRSTALL YORKSHIRE, then LANCASTER, then LONDON where he married his wife in 1873, then on to SCOTLAND, a couple of years later to SALFORD, then LPOOL, then back to MANCHESTER, then off to SOUTH WALES, then finally to LPOOL where he died. He was all his life in the AUCTIONEERS business and I think he travelled where the work was. Somne of his brothers were the same, must have had gypsy blood in them. I dont recognise any of the names you gave but then there were lots of LEE families in LANCASHIRE and CHESHIRE, they bred like rabbits, although they werent short of a few bob, pics I have of them tell you that. TED

Extracted from site called 'Was your ancestor a Gypsy?' found by googling. Looks like a very informative site from the Romany & Traveller Family History Society. Surnames Most surnames used by Gypsies are also common in the 'Gorjer' or non-Gypsy population. The best known and most widespread Gypsy families include: Boswell, Buckland, Faa, Hearn, Heron, Lee, Lovell, Smith, Wood, Young. RW

Thanks for all that help, at least I have confirmed that it could be quite difficult to trace her line. I will try to find her birth certificate! I am pretty sure she was born in Wallasey as that's what my aunt told me - but if she was a traveller then who could tell? Can anyone help clarify where Liverpool and The Wirral were classified under (Lancs or Cheshire?) before the 1970s counties change and hoe does this affect genealogy?

Jonathan Genuki has a list of registration districts, arranged by county: www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/REG/index.htm Wirral is in Cheshire, there are several Liverpool & surrounding area districts under Lancs. The page I gave about will tell you which years and volume numbers apply to which districts. nell

Of course a lot of Lees were from Ireland and didnt you mention Liverpool?

ukbmd.org.uk has links to local RO sites such as Cheshire and Lancs. Couldn't find anything easily on Lancs, but these three cropped up on Cheshire Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1921 to 1923 LEE Marjorie Prestbury Cheshire East PRE/25/45 Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1924 to 1926 LEE Marjorie Bredbury Stockport BRE/8/8 LEE Marjorie Stockport First Stockport ST1/46/10 Two problems with them all: no mention of second names (and they are usually mentioned with an initial at least) and Prestbury (nr Macclesfield) and Bredbury/Stockport aren't exactly Merseyside! Christine

doesn't look like it's going to be easy - but thanks for all your comments!

Dear Jonathan, Try Googling Romany Heritage, there a couple of area sites on there and possibly links.to contacts I know there is much more information now than ten years ago Moore is another Romany name ( possibly Anglicised) certainly very old. Good luck Jay

Lee is a very very common surname. I know because I have a few in my tree and keep getting messages from completely unconnected people asking about them. Yes, some Lees are / were gypsies, but that doesn't mean they all were. Your grandmother won't appear on any of the censuses that are available because they only go up to 1901 at the moment (hundred-year rule). I haven't read all the replies properly yet, but what you need is her marriage certificate to get her father's name, and her birth certificate, checking that the father's name (and occupation) match what is on the marriage certificate. Having read the above messages now - I would say the first thing to do is to get her marriage certificate, as the reference numbers for that should be relatively easy to find, perhaps on 1837 online? Kate.

My great uncle married a women named Gypsi Isabella Lee in South Africa. Does that mean her name is redundant? Rose

Looking at the above Information regarding Smith and Lee i no for a fact that that in 1914 thees familys where setup in Pigue Lane Liverpool that was just down the road from the Ferry Boats, as that where my mother was born, she was one of the Smiths. Pigue is now a main Road. Hope this has helped you ?.
Good Luck
Joe

MarriageFinder™: Marjorie B Lee married Leslie N Boughton [?]
Name: LEE, Marjorie B
Registration district: [?] Wallasey
County: Cheshire
Year of registration: 1945
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name Boughton
Volume no: [?] 8A
Page no: [?] 1963

Name: LEE, Marjorie B
Registration district: [?] West Derby
County: Lancashire
Year of registration: 1921
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Mother's maiden name: Oag
Volume no:[?] 8B
Page no:[?]1234

West Derby is pretty much in Liverpool.

Oag isn't exactly common but I can't find a marriage for Lee- Oag

From 1911 census

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OAG, William Head Married M 32 1879 Blacksmith Lancs Liverpool VIEW
OAG, Catherine Wife Married
10 years F 38 1873 Lanc Liverpool VIEW
OAG, Jessie Daughter F 9 1902 Lancs Liverpool VIEW
OAG, Margaret Daughter F 7 1904 Lanc Liverpool VIEW
OAG, Christina Daughter F 5 1906 Lanc Liverpool VIEW
OAG, Mary Daughter F 3 1908 Lanc Liverpool VIEW
OAG, William Son M 0 (11 MONTHS) 1911 Lanc Liverpool VIEW
LYNCH, Catherine Stepdaughter F 13 1898 School Lanc Liverpool VIEW

You people are responding to a 7 year old thread.