Genealogy Chat

Kathleen, Lilly, glad we are still amicable.. I was commenting on what you had writ...LOL strange, wonder why I get that effect then? you see the menu in green, on the left? well the thread (page 1)doesn't start (for me) until I scroll down to..''Text TOO Small ?'' page 2 starts normally.. Hugs? Bob

Bob, Glad to hear it wasn't me personally that you were getting at. As it happens the thread opens quite normally for me, with no large expanse of white space, which is why I didn't know what you meant. Kath. x

Found something interesting, apparently, if a cemtery was full and no longer accepting burials, permission was sought from the Home secretary, so that maybe why it says under license of Home secretary, maybe, when they were buried the cemetary was full or no longer operational.

1. Central government responsibility for cemeteries (and crematoria) within England is shared. The Home Secretary is responsible for burial and cremation law, and related matters concerning the disturbance of buried human remains. I found a parliament site which says the above and also a few other things, i think maybe certain deaths i.e possibly suspicious or maybe famous/infamous had to be passed through the Home secretary before being granted burial rites, or something like that. Or maybe its just they were wealthy and their families wanted them buried this way.

If anyone is interested in finding out more about internment in Victorian times, in London, try this site http://www.victorianlondon.org/cassells/cassells-35.htm it mentions brick vaults, costs etc It seems lead coffins had to be used in brick vaults, owing to the regualtions of the time Dee

I think the answer may be more mundane than at first imagined ...... If the cemetary was running short of space then a special request may have been made to the secretary of state via the burial authorities to use a brick grave rather than use more ground. There is something like this if you google Ryde cemetary. The result would appear 'by order of the secretary of state' meaning by permission, rather than on his instruction. I will look a little further..... Ian

Oh Gawd! Typhoid Mary was in the US ..... can't be doing with this one anymore!!! Did all the ailment stuff last night and drew a blank - only thing I could find was TB and then not a real epidemic. With 20 years between the burials, it does seem a desperate assumption - unless 'Typhoid Mary' visited twice! I wonder if the newspapers carried a story ... maybe they were special in some way and the Home Sec wanted to ensure their remains survived as long as poss? Only other thing I can think of is that after a post-mortem the official speak is 'by order of the HS' ... maybe we're over-reacting? Will check back later! Regs Jane

Right girls lol....This is exactly what is on the CD.... Holy Trinity Bungay....Suffolk 1. Ann Hollingdale aged 77 years (buried in a brick grave in the Churchyard by Licence from Secr. of State) Sept 21 1857 2. Elizabeth Denny of Yarmouth Norfolk aged 82 (Interned in brick grave in the Church Yard by order of Home Secretary) buried August 21 1877. As you can see there is 20 years between the buriels!, so would 'Typhoid Mary apply' I'm not sure! I will also have a google and see what I come up with. meet you back here soon I expect lol......makes an interesting evening. and you never know if we find the answer, one day someone else might ask the same question and hey, we will have an answer.....good luck......Lilly

Since I read this post, a thought has been scratching away at the farther reaches of my brain, demanding entry..I KNOW something about this..but what??? All I can come up with is a connection in my mind between Bungay and Typhoid Mary!!! If I am right, and I am not at all sure I am, then Typhoid Mary was detained by order of the Home Secretary in the interests of public health, cos she was a Typhoid Carrier. Tjere was more than one known Typhoid Carrier of course. I will try to google it, ha ha. Only other thing I can think of - these women were famous/notorious and there was a concern that sight-seers might dig em up. (Lead-lined coffins WERE in use during that period, so its not that...) Olde Crone

Lilly did you note dow their names - I've a desperate urge to google them Zoe

In 1877 there was a lot of speculation about where people had the right to be buried.......I'm very vague ion the whole subject, but I think until then everyone had the right to be buried in their local C of E churchyard, but overcrowding had forced the government to try and get a bill through which meant people would no longer have this ''security'' and if you didn't buy your space you would probably end up in the Cemetery!! I'm not quite sure if the bill was passed that year or not, or what happened next, but I wondered if this was some sort of ref to it??? Old dears saying ''Over my dead body will I go in that heathen cemetery....(LOL!) and Home Secretary or no Home Secretary, I'm going in St Mary's churchyard like generations of my family before me''!! Merry

There you go, shorter URL, and I don't get a blank space when the thread opens?....lol......and I still don't know why these two ladies had a brick coffin.....it was in the ground, and not a vault....think I will order the death cert, as Gwynne suggested, maybe that will throw some light on things .......lilly

Kathleen, It may be as I suggested that has caused the page to open with a vast expanse of blank page before it gets to this thread. It also happens when a poster inserts a full page of fullstops...............................etc in the heading. Not getting at YOU at all, it IS a long URL....... hugs? Bob

Bob, Can I just ask what you mean about me messing up the thread with the long URL? Wasn't aware that I'd messed up anything. Not getting at you...just a genuine enquiry as I don't know what you mean. Kath. x

It sounds to me as if the two ladies died of an infectious disease. It could have been plague or perhaps smallpox. The brick linings would I suppose have stopped the 'germs' getting out!!!

yes i think Kathleen has messed up the thread with her extremely long URL.. or even Lily's 3x ???....Bob

Have you tried googling their details and see if any odd murders or strange happenings pop up Just a thought Lou x

Hello Lilly, can I just add that this option is still available today-brick graves- and are known as vaults. Usually the occupant is lying in a lead lined coffin, It is a more expensive burial as I think the tomb takes up more space than a normal burial but why special permission was needed I afraid I not aware of an answer. Sylvie

Hi Cousin, very strange isn't it?...I might just send for a cert just to find out, I was looking at parish records for Bungay, its quite interesting lol.....very interesting in fact lol.......let you know if I find out anything else that you might find of interest.......Lilly

Hi Lilly, I'd have to send for one of the birth certs to see the cause of death. Gwynne