Genealogy Chat

I have read this thread with great interest as my original reason for starting to research my family tree was that there is a hereditary genetic condition in my family said to be prominent in Jews of Eastern European desent (the gene is said to have originated in Lithuania 350 years ago, believed to be a result of interbreeding in the Ashkenazi Jewish communities). and I wondered if I had Jewish ancestory on my Mother's Father's side of the family. My Father seemed to think that because her Father's family came from the East End there MUST be! Turns out my Mum's Father's ancestors were Weaver's in Coventry! For anyone who is interested, I'm talking about a condition called 'Dystonia'. This causes involuntary muscle spasms and abnormal postures. In the 'olden days' it was considered to be a mental problem and sufferers were locked away in asylums. Just a tip for those who had Jewish ancestors described as 'lunatics' or such like on census records.

my fathers side came from Kutno in Poland. It is unlikely that they had a surname there. Any jews that came from kutno have the surname Kutner, Kuttner or Cutner I'll have a look at the website tomorrow thanks

This is the source info I found about Jewish immigrants: 'Before the arrival of Dutch Ashkenazi immigrants in significant numbers in the mid 19th C there was already a well established Ashkenazi community in London. These families were...living Spitalfields in Houndsditch and the Eastern fringe of the City of London close to Dukes Place where the Great Synagogue was... Their surnames... very largely based of patronymics , Abrahams, Benjamin ,Emanuel, Isaacs, Jacobs,Joel , Lazarus, Moses, Myers ,Phillips ,Sim(m)ons ... European Jews by and large did not use surnames until it became compulsory under Napoleonic Law after 1811. ..It is as a rule extraordinarily difficult to ascertain from whence these comparatively early immigrants individually originated since these common Jewish given names are shared by all European Jews . The one notable exception to the rule being the many early English families names Hart , which it is reasonable to suppose is an Anglicised form of the common Dutch given name Hartog . The first British census which included details of the place of birth was in 1851 by which time the almost all the 18 Th. C Jewish immigrants had died.' From http://www.zen28027.zen.co.uk/dutch.htm Aubrey Jacobus December 1998 [email protected]

karries G Grandads naturalisation papers were amazing nell, the info and little personal comments about him were fantastic, well worth going to kew for if you fing yours were naturalised

all mine were married in the great synangogue too... have you tried looking for naturalisation papers... I saw my gt grandfathers a couple of weeks ago..fantastic...they also tell you where they were born

Karrie I don't, but I believe they were Ashkenazim Jews because Rose's parents married in the Great Synagogue in Duke's Place, which was for Ashkenazim Jews. [Sephardi Jews went to Bevis Marks synagogue, which is still there, the Great Synague was destroyed in the war, sadly]. I also found a site about Jewish settlers in London, which said that surnames Hart, Phillips, Joel and Isaacs - all of which feature with this lot - were Ashkenazim Jews. The Zalig name is apparently likely to be a Dutch Jewish one. I've found them all as far back as the late 18th century, all born in Aldgate/Whitechapel area, but don't yet know exactly when they came to London. Zalig's father Zusman is also a much-mistranscribed chap - no two censuses the same. He is Zuseman/Tuseman/Luisman/Juseman as well as Zuesman in a directory! nell

you dont know where they origianlly came from do you.. ashkenazi jews come from eastern Europe & sephardis from Spain

looks like you have got some interesting searching to do there nell, good luck, hope you get to the bottom of it

unusual for those days, for someone to marry out of the jewish faith

Just googled and found its 'Oy vey!' at least it is with Ashkenazim Jews, which is the branch that Rose came from. nell

It gets better. I was looking for Zalig's marriage and thought I'd found it - bride named Margaret which fitted in nicely with census info - then realised the marriage was dated AFTER the census, on which I'd found the couple with 2 children. So I did another search and found poor Zalig/Telig/Zalji/Zelek has been wrongly recorded yet again, this time as Zael!!!!!!!!! But I did find that his marriage was registered in the same reg district and month and year as his younger sister Rose (my husband's gt grandmother) who also has 2 children by the 1901 census. Maybe they had a double wedding? Rose and her groom married in Strand register office as he was a gentile. nell

think you meant oi vey, and if i was jewish ...or an iceburg i may be rather offended by that last comment!

I think somebody with a jewish name was responsible for sinking the Titanic. Let me think, who was it...? ... Goldberg, Weinberg.... oh yes!.... Iceberg!

Valerie, you might also wish to check the name Langer.

thanks for that Merry I shall have another look for him Val

Val, if they were German jews, then it might have been Lantz before (this is Lancer in Yiddish) Merry

talking of anglicising (probaby spelt wrong)your name any one have any ideas what Lancer wwould have been in Hebrew have tried for ages to find my grandfather

I know the feeling. I have a jewish ancestor whose surname was spelt differently on the census, my grandmother;s birth certificate and her marriage certificate. Fortunately we were able to close in on it due to a very unusual - but consistently spelled - first name. Next problem, half the family anglicised their name around the time of the 1st WW.

Merry I think in future, when you go to register a baby, the registrar should have a list and say 'No, you can't name your baby John. We've exceeded our quota of Johns. Here is a list of less used boy's names which are acceptable. Oh, sorry, your surname is Blenkinsop-Smythe-Rawkins? Of course you can name your son John.' nell

Maybe we should post a suggestion that if anyone is going to get married and is interested in their family history, they should check out their prospective partner's tree BEFORE they tie the knot??? Making sure they marry someone with an unusually (but not impossibly) named set of ancestors from a small village somewhere a long way from a town............................. Then I would be single! LOL Merry