Genealogy Chat

In a Mo

Thanks to Heather I now have a possible Charles CLIFTON bapt in Biscester Oxford in 1835. But......... On different censuses he is shown as born either Biscester or Pinner. I would be very grateful if someone could check Pinner Parish records so that I can prove or disprove this as a place of birth.DOB in all censuses 1834. I cannot prove his fathers name as I cannot find his marriage to Jane Griffiths of New Radnor Wales. I have trawled and cross referenced all Charles Clifton marriages I can find with absolutely no luck. Also another oddity after receiving the info from Heather I found the family in Biscester in 1841 and 51 but no Charles with them and a choice of 5 possibles in other places. What a brick wall family these are proving. Any help gratefully received.

Don't the other censuses give counties? Bicester is Oxfordshire, Pinner as far as I know in Middlesex. nell

Helen That is part of my problem the censuses give both with county mentioned. In 1841 there is a Charles shown as born 1834 in Middlesex one 1839 in Biscester and another 1831 in Shepperton Middlesex and with no fathers name and the Charles that Heather found on baptism records missing from Biscester but the rest of the family there he is proving very elusive. The Charles born 1839 in Biscester is with a different family and still with that family in 51. I cannot find a death for a Charles in Biscester from 1837 to 1841 So where oh where has he gone????

OK. Forget 1841 for a minute. When does YOUR Charles Clifton make his last appearance - when are you unable to trace him back further without being sure you have the right person? How many Charles Cliftons are there to choose from on each census? nell

First positive appearence 1871 Duke Street. The Welcome Stranger Lodging House. Charles Clifton Father Mar 39 Chimney Sweep. Oxfordshire Biscester Jane Wife Mar 35 Servant, Radnorshire New Radnor Sarah Daugh 1 Oxfordshire Watlington 1891 2 Eight Bells Yard Luton Bedfordshire No of Rooms Occupied 4 Charles Clifton HD Mar 57 Sweep Pinner Middlesex Jane Wife 47 Charwoman Radnor New Radnor Annie Dau 14 Oxford Wadlington George Son 8 Scholar Oxford Wadlington Johnny Son 12 Scholar London Sudbury 1901 13 Foundry Lane Luton Bedfordshire No of rooms occupied 3 Charles Clifton HD 67 Chimney Sweep Worker Pinner W Harrow Jane Wife 65 Laundress New Radnor Wales John Son 23 Straw Hat Blocker Low Place Sudbury George Son 19 Straw Hat Blocker Wadlington Oxford Johnny Gson 8 Luton Beds Whole family disappeared completely in 1881. 1861. 1834 b. Biscester lodging Winslow Bucks 1834 b London Middlesex boarder Epworth Lincoln 1834 b Herts Head St Giles Middlesex out of 7 born 2 years either side 1834. 1851 1839 Biscester son Biscester none born in Middlesex none born in Herts. out of 15 born 5 years either side of 1834. 1841 total of 8 shown 2 years either side of 1834 total of 21 shown 5 years either side 1834. 1 born 1839 oxfordshire. 2 living middlesex no place of birth shown but on image born in county. Sorry took so long but had to gather it together to make sense.

Helen are you still out there??? I have decided to tackle the problem in a different way. I am in the process of going through all the census 5 years either side of 1835 birth and compiling an excel sheet to see where the differences are. Only started last night so will take a couple of days. The thought only came to me after our exchnage so thankyou for the brainwave. May I come back to you for another chat whwn I have completed the excersise??? Thanks for your input. Pmaid

nudge

Right, re-read this lot. The first positive sighting in 1871 when he says he was born in Pinner. He goes on saying this after 1871. So its only pre-1871 that there;s some doubt as to the right chap? Have you got his marriage cert? nell

With you so far, cannot find marriage hunted high and low.

What I'm saying is, the Bicester bloke may be a total red herring. Charles born Pinner may just be hopelessly mistranscibed on previous censuses - or maybe with a different surname. Don't want to alarm you, but my husband had a great-great-grandfather called James Carter who was non-existent before 1871. The brilliant Fi on this site found him with family in 1861 (and corroborated it by finding his blind son, still with original surname, in later censuses). Having discovered James was calling himself McCarthy in 1861, I confidently sent off for his son (husband's gt grandfather) Charles' birth cert - only to discover father's name was Denis McCarthy! Sure enough, I found a marriage between said Denis and Charles' mother. But I still can't find Dennis/James Carter/McCarthy in 1841. nell

Um......nell...............in 1871 he says he was born in Bicester!! (with the ''same'' wife as later) Merry

Merry I guess I am too tired to get my head round this. nell

Thankyou all very much for having a look, I have deleted the other thread Helen. I am off to bed now but I will check back tomorrow to see if anyone has had any thoughts about what to try next. I would really like to crack this one for my Dad as this is his side of the family. He is 75 this year and I would love to be able to give him one of Ron's wonderful trees as a pressie even if I can't crack the Irish side he would be thrilled if I can get this one untangled. Again thanks all see you tomorrow.

Just got in and firstly may I say thankyou to all for last night. Today I have received a PM from Heather to say that the Charles in Bicester bapt 1835 was buried age 9 months in Bicester. So why does my Charles say Bicester in 1871!!!! Don't they make you cross? Back to Pinner then. This now actually gets slightly better it narrows it down to 3 possibles in fact maybe only 2. So wish me luck now hunting for records for Marylebone, Kensington, and the long shot Studham. Again thankyou all.

We don't know that your Charles DID say Bicester, do we? We just know what's on the census, which might be one chap's interpretation of another chap's writing down what he thought your Charles actually told him. It's possible it said Pinner and it got written on the sheet as Bicester. Maybe the original household form P looked like a B and the chap guessed. Anyway, good luck with your search! nell

See what you mean Helen. Had a conflab with Dad today and part of the oral history he got when he started this was some of the Red Herring in that the family said, he said, he came from Oxford. Also some of his children were born in Oxfordshire so I suppose that has compounded the problem somewhat. Thanks again for your input. Pmaid

Having spent the last 10 days searching for two marriages for Charles Clifton to an Emma between 1851 and 1861 and then to Jane Griffiths 1862 onwards till their deaths I now have to admit defeat. I do not think I am ever going to solve this one for my Dad who started this 20 plus years ago. Unless anyone can think of anything obvious I may have missed??? the Clifton line are officially permenantly brickwalled and consigned to the filing rack.

Perranmaid It is easier for an alcoholic to give up booze than for a genealogist to give up research. You may want to take a break and refresh your batteries, but the Clifton problem will still be there and you know it!!! nell

I know it !!! But I have other brick walls so maybe some chipping on them will do the trick. First stop a Thomas who married a Thomas or were they brother and sister??????????? Thanks for your input.