Genealogy Chat

Old Crone Thanks for your clarification, but long experience with the RC records know that, like the Irish, they can often be a law unto themselves! To be fair, this is partly a throw back to the penal laws pre 1829.. I know one parish in Dorset who still has its baptismal records going back to the 1850's kept in a cupboard amongst the dust and dirt of the centuries! When I challenged them about the need to put these records into the local CRO they told me that there was no requirement or law which says that they have to deposit their Baptismal Records into the CRO. I have also been told by many other churches, both RC and Cof E that there is no reqirement to deposit Baptismal Records in the local CRO, marriages yes. As for Ireland and their records, you would be horrified if I told you that I have handled church records going back to the early 1800's amongst the debris of a hotel breakfast table! Be prepared for anything in Ireland! With the advent of the 1837 Act to statutely record births I suppose the need to actively record baptisms is not as necessary as it was pre 1837. Incidentally, it is not just the RC that refuse permission to the LDS to film records. One branch of my family are from Northamtonshire and would appear to be strong Cof E and none of their records are on the IGI. In fact very little of Northants is on the IGI. This may be because much of the county's people, in bygone days, were non-conformist Interesting discussion. Janet

Hope you don't mind me adding another question to this thread, since it is of the same vein... If a RC girl had a child out of wedlock, would that child have been baptised in the RC church still? Or is that not allowed? I just have a brick wall I am trying to break through. Cannot find any birth entry for my grt grt grandfather and believe he was possibly born out of wedlock to a RC girl. Also, someone mentioned St Georges Southwark (which is a Roman Catholic Cathedral) - how do you get information from them, since this would have been the local RC church for this family.

Athena There are TWO cathedrals at Southwark. One is Cof E and older, dating in parts back to 11 century but which did not become a cathedral until 1905 known as St Saviours and St Mary Overie. There is also another 'newer' cathedral at Southwark which is RC and called St Georges and is the mother church for the Archdiocese of Southwark so any information required would be best to write to the Diocese at Southwark, which covers the London Boroughs South of the Thames as well as Kent.. Google for address, as I cannot say what it might be offhand. Since about the 1780's people have always been able to have their children baptised as catholics whether ilegitimate or not if that has been their wish. If anything the rules may be a little tighter these days, when some priests like proof that the child is going to brought up as a catholic and that the parents are showing some signs of church going. Pre about 1780 life for Catholics was very different. Google facts on 'recusants'. Janet

Athena Yes, an illegitimate child would be 'allowed' to be baptised in a RC Church and it would have been positively encouraged if she was a Catholic herself. She would no doubt have got a good telling off, of course, but that's beside the point - so did Anglicans, Methodists etc. Janet I didnt mean to suggest that ONLY the RCs refused access to the LDS, I know that many other denominations refused too, it seemed to be down to the Bishop of the diocese, or even individual vicars. But its my understanding that the RC Church refused point blank over all, as did the Jews and the Quakers. I understand too, that there is no requirement by law to deposit baptismal registers per se, it is the old document/archive aspect of them, rather than the actual content, which moves the law. I too have seen PRs kept in the actual Church, in a wooden chest, home to mice and beetles and damp, and watched an elderly vicar copiously licking his fingers in order to turn the pages! Indeed, in one of the WDYTYA programmes, an Irish Vicar went through the original register, back to about 1840. But reading this thread, I feel very grateful that I dont appear, as yet, to have any Irish ancestors - what a nightmare to research! OC

Many thanks, folks. I think I will try to find out who to write to at St Georges Southwark. It's definitely St Georges Southwark that is the Roman Catholic Cathedral, which was opened on 4 July 1848 (hey, that mean's it's their birthday today LOL) and was the only RC cathedral in London until Westminster Cathedral was built 50 yrs later. Since my grt grt grandfather was born c1855, St George's Southwark would have been the nearest RC cathedral for him to have been baptised in - it's situated nr the Imperial War Museum on Westminster Bridge Rd/Lambeth Rd - which would have been handy for Southwark/Lambeth residents (which is where he was from). (I think St George the Martyr is the church nr Borough station - yes, CofE). Thanks again for your help. At least I now know it's worthwhile pursuing this line of thought.

Old Crone Be thankful you are lucky enough not to have Irish ancestors! Even my English side produced an Irish great grandmother! Still, it does sharpen the mind and make you prepared to try anything, well almost anything! I think we are in agreement that these old records should be deposited somewhere like the CRO, and I will continue to voice my disapproval when I come up against any church who is not keeping their records in good order. I will also keep badgering the CRO's to try to get hold of these records! On a different note, I have been horrified to learn that despite Devon being one of the main counties receiving evacuated children during the Second W War, there are no records of any substance at the Devon Record Office in Exeter. I have tried to research this area in Devon, with very little success, to be told by Exeter that little was kept! There are so many records that should be in Record Offices and aren't. I will get off my soap box now! Janet

Janet I too have been horrified to discover documents which are hundreds of years old, being held by various Solicitors. When you consider how Solicitors practices have changed hands over and over again down the centuries..... Also, estate papers dating back to the 1300s are still in the family's hands - I feel compelled to rush to their house and make sure they are looking after them properly! I suppose all this just makes me very grateful to all the fussy little clerks down the centuries, who never threw anything away. OC

Just got in and WOW I didn't mean to stir everybody up but what wonderful knowledge, and helpful advice has been forthcoming. Having studied both the threads mentioned above, I have completed a free assessment form on one of the sites shown and hope to get a reply soon, be interesting to see what they have to say. I think I will take a chance and write to the church at Monkwearmouth to see if they do have any additional info and also take a closer look at the info from Mallow with regard to the info re travel back and forth. Thankyou all for your contributions.