Genealogy Chat

I endorse that sentiment Janet. Many of us feel that our ancestors are looking over our shoulders as we tap away on our keyboards searching for the truth. I recently opened up a copy of the Times from 1846 looking for mention of one ancestor and as I was turning a page my eye was drawn to a tiny article about another totally unconnected relative applying for poor relief - a million to one chance I can only put down to her desire from beyond the grave to be recognised and remembered.

We can't change the awful circumstances they suffered but we owe it to them to remember them and ensure that such situations aren't repeated.

My gt grandmother's elder brother was treated badly (don't know exactly what happened) when a child by a farmer and had problems since then. He cut his fiancee's throat in 1862, was found innocent on the grounds of insanity and spent the rest of his life - some forty odd years - in Broadmoor. I've often thought that perhaps finding him guilty and hanging him might have been kinder. nell

If Gwilym was in the army and then discharged as medically unfit, the odds are that his records will survive in WO 364 at Kew.

I discovered a GG Aunt, who no one had known about. She was put into the Workhouse aged 18 months as an imbecile. She stayed there till she was 39, then was reclassified as Deaf and Dumb. It broke my heart, particularly as the family lived but a stone's throw away from the Manchester School for the Deaf and Dumb. OC

Thanks for your replies. It feels somehow pesonal to me because as the eldest grandchild I remember Gwylim's wife. I suspect she never knew what happened to him. His head injury was caused by either someone dropping a paving slab on his head or from some problem to do with him bareknuckle fighting. I think he suffered from what would now be recognised as severe depression. In between the episodes he was 'normal' and held down a job, married and had children. Whatever it was that he suffered from he could recognise it coming on and would go to the local -ish hospital and ask for help - which for those times must have taken some doing. This did not stop the army accepting him to fight in the slaughter fields of WW1. A 2nd cousin said that his father always thought that once they realised he was not 'stable' the army would have found it easier to quietly get rid of him. There was nobody to ask questions. Once again, thank you all.

I discovered a gg grandmother came from Belgium, was widowed and then put in a home for blind people. It was quite heart rending seeing her listed as an 'inmate' on the 1891 census. I hope they were kind to her. Jennie

Hi Jane lt is rather sad to think he died alone and far away from home. lt is possible though that he didn't realise it. My own moher suffered with alzheimer's for 10 years before she died, never realizing that her wishes to be buried in Cornwall where she grew up would come true. l have just found one of my ancestors was buried in a common grave with other people. lt's comforting to know that at least she knew nothing about it, though l feel for her daughter not being able to bury her mother as she would have wished. lt must have been a painfull memory to carry through life. Don't dwell on it Jane. Remember happier parts of discovering your ancestors. Pam

OC off topic a bit but I once worked (voluntarily) in a psychiatric, geriatric hospital & it was AWFUL! If the patients wet their bed they had to stay in pyjamas all day, not allowed to get dressed. This was only about 25 years ago, such a lack of respect & dignity ! I agree that care in the community does not really work but I hope & pray that I don't end up in one of those places ! Sarah :-)

Jane The brutal truth would be that he had no money to pay for private hospital accommodation. You dont know the nature of his illness but back in thise days, anyone who made a public nuisance of themselves in any way and was deemed to have mental health problems, was whipped off to an Asylum - and no choice about it, no legal stuff to go through. The Workhouse functioned as many things, mostly hospital/asylum by the 1900s. This seems terrible to us in this day and age, but try to look at it another way - he was being protected from himself, if you like, and was being fed and clothed and housed. Many years ago I lived near a huge mental hospital and I used to think how awful that all those people were locked away, no freedom etc. But I have come to realise since, that these people were very vulnerable in the real world and that the hospital was a place of safety and security for those who could not function on their own. As we see today, Care in the Community does not work, mostly, OC

thank you for your offer - I've sent you a message. What nice people on here!

Hi Jane, the place your looking for may have been whats known as St Mary's Workhouse,this was in Kingston as opposed to whats known as St James' which is in Milton. The workhouse is still there and has been converted into housing assocation flats. If you want me to take a photo then msg me,its only five min drive from me, Karen

Thanks I have just emailed the searchrooms at Portsmouth City Museum and Records Office - would that be the right one? The level of poverty and sacrifice is humbling. We should be teaching about stuff like this in schools instead of kings and queens. I have found that my other grandfather had a half aunt in London who appears to have been abandoned there when her mother died and her father moved to Wales and remarried. I've traced her to 1901 whan at 40 she was still living alone. My great grandmother was widowed at the early stages of WW1 and left with 2 children to bring up alone. She didn't know she had a half sister. They could have helped each other. The lies and secrets in those days were so destructive.

I'm sure many of us have found similarly disturbing stories. My great grandfather made a good living as a bookbinder but in my research I have found out that his widowed mother paid 16 shillings for his apprenticeship and a few months later she was in the workhouse. He never told anybody about this but his mother must have sacrificed her last few pennies to give him a future. Heartrending to think that she knowingly made this enormous personal sacrifice for her beloved son. My mother can't understand why he never told anybody but maybe he was ashamed that he benefitted from her suffering. Myself, I would have spoken of her with such pride.

The admissions register appears to be at Portsmouth Record Ofice and there is a lady on the Records Board who has been offering lookups.

The death was registered by the Resident Medical Superintendent Lunatic Asylum Kingston so it must be the right intitute name. What would he be doing in a workhouse though?

This may have been the Borough Lunatic Asylum where my gg grandmother died in 1886: Present name St James' Hospital Previous name(s) Portsmouth Lunatic Asylum (1879 - 1914) Borough of Portsmouth Mental Hospital (1914 - 1926) ?? (1926 - 1937) Address Locksway Road Portsmouth PO4 8LD Previous location Locksway Road was formerly Asylum Road Foundation Year 1879 Closed No Use this link to find out more: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords

Hi Jane You are probably reading the UD correctly,it stands for Urban District,RD would mean Rural District. Why Southampton you ask,well bearing in mind the military connection,they could have moved him anywhere and it's where he finished up,troop movements through the port perhaps,plus a lot of the medical problems were deemed curable by sea air/fresh air. Not quite so sure Southampton would have been the best air quality around,just a bit of a possible theory. Glen

I don't know if thie link will help:- http://www.mdx.ac.uk/WWW/STUDY/4_13_TA.htm Hope so Yvonne

Thanks for the replies. I feel so sad about this. It has really depressed me. If it is him it means that he died on his own a long way from home and in an asylum. English wasn't even his first language. Life was brutal then for the poor.