Genealogy Chat

I became interested in family research when I realised that my great grandfather Gwylim Owen disappeared during WW1 and that there were so many versions of what happened that it was clear nobody actually knew. I know that Gwilym had periods of mental health problems, I'm not sure how this manifested, whether through depression or something else - it seems he suffered a head injury when in his teens. He lived a hard life as a miner, married and had two children. Then around 1915 he vanishes from the family. I've been looking for him for a long time and, as a result have traced parts of my family back to the 17th Century, discovered unknown previous marriages, realised just how poor my family was and how lucky I am to have been born when I was and, like most people who get into this, what a wonderful mongrel race we are (my grandmother's 'just off the boat from Ireland' protestations turned out to be almost 100 years out as her family lived in Wales since the early 19th Century and includes a touch of Brummie and London). Last week I decided to try for a death certificate for someone called Gwilyn who died in Portsmouth. It arrived this morning. 'Gwilyn' died in Lunatic Asylum Kingston UD (not sure about UD) of bronchopneumonia. His occupation is listed as 'of the workhouse Southampton UD (again not sure I'm reading the UD properly) Labourer I can't find any record of this asylum in Kingston. I don't understand why a man who apparently enlisted in the army (they appear to have accepted him even knowing of his problems) in South Wales would end up in Southampton. I know that the name isn't exactly right but I suspect it is just written wrongly. I just have a feeling this is him and feel so very sad. Can anyone help me with where these institutions were, what they were used for or how I could find out more? Thank you.

Urban District - sort of borough council Maureen

Hi Jane, If you google 'southampton Asylum' and 'portsmouth asylum' their is much information about these places. On the Portsmouth one there is a link to the reocrds office which may be of use to you. UD usually means urban district. Audrey

Thanks for the replies. I feel so sad about this. It has really depressed me. If it is him it means that he died on his own a long way from home and in an asylum. English wasn't even his first language. Life was brutal then for the poor.

I don't know if thie link will help:- http://www.mdx.ac.uk/WWW/STUDY/4_13_TA.htm Hope so Yvonne

Hi Jane You are probably reading the UD correctly,it stands for Urban District,RD would mean Rural District. Why Southampton you ask,well bearing in mind the military connection,they could have moved him anywhere and it's where he finished up,troop movements through the port perhaps,plus a lot of the medical problems were deemed curable by sea air/fresh air. Not quite so sure Southampton would have been the best air quality around,just a bit of a possible theory. Glen

This may have been the Borough Lunatic Asylum where my gg grandmother died in 1886: Present name St James' Hospital Previous name(s) Portsmouth Lunatic Asylum (1879 - 1914) Borough of Portsmouth Mental Hospital (1914 - 1926) ?? (1926 - 1937) Address Locksway Road Portsmouth PO4 8LD Previous location Locksway Road was formerly Asylum Road Foundation Year 1879 Closed No Use this link to find out more: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords

The death was registered by the Resident Medical Superintendent Lunatic Asylum Kingston so it must be the right intitute name. What would he be doing in a workhouse though?

The admissions register appears to be at Portsmouth Record Ofice and there is a lady on the Records Board who has been offering lookups.

I'm sure many of us have found similarly disturbing stories. My great grandfather made a good living as a bookbinder but in my research I have found out that his widowed mother paid 16 shillings for his apprenticeship and a few months later she was in the workhouse. He never told anybody about this but his mother must have sacrificed her last few pennies to give him a future. Heartrending to think that she knowingly made this enormous personal sacrifice for her beloved son. My mother can't understand why he never told anybody but maybe he was ashamed that he benefitted from her suffering. Myself, I would have spoken of her with such pride.

Thanks I have just emailed the searchrooms at Portsmouth City Museum and Records Office - would that be the right one? The level of poverty and sacrifice is humbling. We should be teaching about stuff like this in schools instead of kings and queens. I have found that my other grandfather had a half aunt in London who appears to have been abandoned there when her mother died and her father moved to Wales and remarried. I've traced her to 1901 whan at 40 she was still living alone. My great grandmother was widowed at the early stages of WW1 and left with 2 children to bring up alone. She didn't know she had a half sister. They could have helped each other. The lies and secrets in those days were so destructive.

Hi Jane, the place your looking for may have been whats known as St Mary's Workhouse,this was in Kingston as opposed to whats known as St James' which is in Milton. The workhouse is still there and has been converted into housing assocation flats. If you want me to take a photo then msg me,its only five min drive from me, Karen

thank you for your offer - I've sent you a message. What nice people on here!

Jane The brutal truth would be that he had no money to pay for private hospital accommodation. You dont know the nature of his illness but back in thise days, anyone who made a public nuisance of themselves in any way and was deemed to have mental health problems, was whipped off to an Asylum - and no choice about it, no legal stuff to go through. The Workhouse functioned as many things, mostly hospital/asylum by the 1900s. This seems terrible to us in this day and age, but try to look at it another way - he was being protected from himself, if you like, and was being fed and clothed and housed. Many years ago I lived near a huge mental hospital and I used to think how awful that all those people were locked away, no freedom etc. But I have come to realise since, that these people were very vulnerable in the real world and that the hospital was a place of safety and security for those who could not function on their own. As we see today, Care in the Community does not work, mostly, OC

OC off topic a bit but I once worked (voluntarily) in a psychiatric, geriatric hospital & it was AWFUL! If the patients wet their bed they had to stay in pyjamas all day, not allowed to get dressed. This was only about 25 years ago, such a lack of respect & dignity ! I agree that care in the community does not really work but I hope & pray that I don't end up in one of those places ! Sarah :-)

Hi Jane lt is rather sad to think he died alone and far away from home. lt is possible though that he didn't realise it. My own moher suffered with alzheimer's for 10 years before she died, never realizing that her wishes to be buried in Cornwall where she grew up would come true. l have just found one of my ancestors was buried in a common grave with other people. lt's comforting to know that at least she knew nothing about it, though l feel for her daughter not being able to bury her mother as she would have wished. lt must have been a painfull memory to carry through life. Don't dwell on it Jane. Remember happier parts of discovering your ancestors. Pam

I discovered a gg grandmother came from Belgium, was widowed and then put in a home for blind people. It was quite heart rending seeing her listed as an 'inmate' on the 1891 census. I hope they were kind to her. Jennie

Thanks for your replies. It feels somehow pesonal to me because as the eldest grandchild I remember Gwylim's wife. I suspect she never knew what happened to him. His head injury was caused by either someone dropping a paving slab on his head or from some problem to do with him bareknuckle fighting. I think he suffered from what would now be recognised as severe depression. In between the episodes he was 'normal' and held down a job, married and had children. Whatever it was that he suffered from he could recognise it coming on and would go to the local -ish hospital and ask for help - which for those times must have taken some doing. This did not stop the army accepting him to fight in the slaughter fields of WW1. A 2nd cousin said that his father always thought that once they realised he was not 'stable' the army would have found it easier to quietly get rid of him. There was nobody to ask questions. Once again, thank you all.

I discovered a GG Aunt, who no one had known about. She was put into the Workhouse aged 18 months as an imbecile. She stayed there till she was 39, then was reclassified as Deaf and Dumb. It broke my heart, particularly as the family lived but a stone's throw away from the Manchester School for the Deaf and Dumb. OC

If Gwilym was in the army and then discharged as medically unfit, the odds are that his records will survive in WO 364 at Kew.