Genealogy Chat

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I found a reference on a2a for Emma (a distant relative) - a patient report for a lengthy stay in the Retreat at York, which was a quite innovative mental hospital, founded and run by Quakers. Today I went to the record office and ordered the document Two packages arrived - a large one, which was a petition to the Lord Chancellor, from 2 of Emma's relatives, trying to get the interest on the money in a sort of trust fund released to pay for her fees etc. THEN I opened the small packet - it was a tiny handwritten envelope addressed to Emma's niece. The seal was broken and inside was a letter written by Emma, asking for family news and lamenting that no one ever wrote to her (although she had written to all family members) and none of the family ever visited her. Also there was a small card with a religious text and 2 bits of material. On examining these, I realised that Emma had actually sewn two little lavender sachets and was sending these to her niece as a gift. When I realised that I was actually touching something this poor lady had made, I just lost it and the tears came. I checked with the archivist and it had been Retreat policy not to post letters from patients. She told me that some of the so-called 'records' are actually boxes containing all the letters patients wrote to friends and family, which were never posted, and all sorts of other bits and pieces. This broke my heart - but I did sent up a few thoughts to her, saying I hoped she was pleased that someone in the family (even though very distantly connected) had eventually seen them almost 150 years later. Yes, I had tears pouring down my face and disgraced myself; and yes, for the first time in my life, I wanted to steal from a record office. Jay

Jay, What a very sad, but also very wonderful story. I can understand why you felt like stealing those belongings from the Record Office. Surely personal things like that should be with family. How awful that your ancestor probably thought her family didn't care enough to reply to her letter, when in reality they didn't even receive them. I'ts no wonder you were emotional. Kath. x

Oh Janet!!! How sad.....I got goose bumps when I read you post and I could have cried myself....I know what you mean when you say tempted to steal from the RO..... Deb

Hi Janet i feel for you totally. It is a shame that they never sent post. If i was in your situation i think i would be thinking about putting bits in my pocket as it is no use to them, even though guilt would get the better of me. I would cry as well i think as this is one of your family members (distant) but it's a realisisation to you that they did actually live. Jen

What a very touching tale-had I had been there I would have cried with you, I get upset when I discover a relative who died shorlty after birth, or very young-sometimes I wonder why we put ourselves through this-then I remember......

It brought tears to my eyes as well, as it would espeically when you have touched things that Emma made, Im sure you must of felt a connection with her and no doubt she felt something as well im sure she did. I think Emma wouldnt mind at all. I know its sad, but also very wonderful and special. Best Wishes Yvonne

I feel TERRIBLE........ My relative, Bedford Pierce, was the head psychiatrist at The Retreat from 1892 - 1922. He was supposed to be very forward thinking in his views about mental illness and I had always held him in esteem........... Now though.......that is terrible, isn't it??? Fancy holding back all these letters etc etc.....I wonder WHY????? Some other members of my family were patients at The Retreat too.......(does that make up for it??) Very many apologies on behalf of my relative.....I can only think this was supposed to be ''for the best''. Quakers are not deliberately cruel people.....:o(( Merry

Janet I cried when I read this too, I know how you feel I myself am always crying about long lost rellies,my husband thinks I am mad. Just think how lucky you are to have found out so much.Merry nobody could possibly blame you for what someone else did a long time ago.We all know you are a genuinely nice person, and would never have condoned it.Isnt it a weird coincidence he was in charge of the very place Janet is talking about.

A little while back I wrote to Bedford P's granddaughter, because I knew how much she thought of her granddad, but she had died aged 90 the previous month.....(Tip, don't leave it too late!) I still feel bad......Maybe Janet's relation was at The Retreat at an earlier date??? Merry

Merry please dont blame yourself you sound a lot like me , but you could not help what happened.I know what you mean about leaving things too late though.

As a mature male I must admit I had tears in my eyes when I read this, surely as a descendant you should be able to have these precious items ?

Thank you everyone for your interest in Emma. Merry, don't feel bad, as it was before his time! Emma was a Quaker too, and from Norfolk. In the letter she refers to 'Friends' and addresses her niece as 'thee' I think Emma was there for many years, but I'm not sure why. She had several children, but they all died within a few days or a few weeks of birth - have often wondered if she suffered from some form of post-natal depression? I don't know much about her husband and can't remember when he died. She is referred to as a widow, so possibly her husband's death caused some sort of depression? She had one brother (the firstborn), quite a lot older than her, then all subsequent babies died very shortly after birth, and finally there was Emma, who in turn lost all HER babies - I've wondered about blood disease and the rhesus factor? The brother died in 1820 (at the age of 47) four years before Emma married and most of his children seem to have died of the dreaded TB before they reached tha age of 30, apart from the one daughter, the niece to whom Emma was writing. So, the poor soul seems to have been surrounded by family tragedy.Any wonder if she went over the edge? Merry, I wouldn't worry too much about the Retreat - at the time of the legal document (1853) there was an outstanding sum of £216-19-9d owed to the manager - a colossal sum in those days. Distant relatives were trying to get permission for the accumulated interest on a large capital sum (bequeathed by Emma's father) to be paid to the Retreat, and some of the capital too. Most places would have turned a patient out before they owed that sort of cash! Jay

How very touching - I think may be one of the lavender sachets would have been secreted about my person when I left. I mean who else is going to check the box again? Lovely story and well done you for finding this. I know a lot of people think that we are just nosey or mad to do this research but personally I think its wonderful that we are remembering people who would otherwise been forgotten

I agree 101% with everything Heather says...... (and am rather glad the reputation of my Bedford Pierce may have been slightly restored!) Merry

There you go Jan, if you want a couple of artful dodgers to help you next time you visit - me and Merry are your guys. To do the 'job' really professionally, Id make up a similar sachet to the ones in the box and bung it in under the other - just in case there is a list with the contents when you hand it back.

Now you know why they confiscated my see through plastic bag before I entered the reading room, AND nodded approvingly when I grabbed my hanky, saying 'I'm sorry but I must have this only I haven't a pocket to put it in!' - I thought they were just being sympathetic about my summer cold!!! Jay

All I can say Jan, is bodily orifices. Hanky in hand, over box, new sachet bunged in precious one picked up. It can be done! Meanwhile clumsy middle aged lady with half a cockney/half norfolk accent lands on floor with legs in air whilst a flirty young beauty from Dorset blinks admiringly at the grey bearded attendant.

............and I suppose I'm the grey bearded attendant? Merry

Thank you Janet for posting this - I haven't yet visited a Records Office & didn't realise, in my innocence, that such things were stored there! It makes the past seem all the more real. Heather P-T Fancy thinking of making a duplicate!! (Great idea tho') Angela