Genealogy Chat

Perhaps someone else can make sense of all this, I've gone round in circles with it! Concerns my g g/father, William Thompson and his family. 1851 census, mother Caroline describes herself as head of household, but wife of a merchants clerk, no sign of said clerk. She has two other sons apart from William, who was 7 at this time. Since William was born in Slough, she's most certainly been in the country at least 7 years - she was born in Genoa, Italy. I cannot find any trace of her prior to this. By 1861, she has married a John Freeman Rengger and has more children, which in itself isn't relevant to this. I cannot find births for any of her Thompson children, thought I'd check marriage certificates. William names his father as John Kempe Devonshire 'gentleman', brother Louis names his father simply as 'Thompson Rengger', a mixture of real Dad & stepdad. William on his marriage certificate gives his own name as William Quirolla Devonshire (!!??), I know this is the correct certificate because it came down to me via a family member. On his daughter's birth certificate a year later, he is named as William Devonshire Thompson. His Mum's name in the registry for her 2nd marriage is given as Caroline Quirolla Thompson. I wondered if the Quirolla part could be her maiden name, as it sounds quite Italian. I've seen that quite a few children did use the Mum's maiden name along with the fathers surname. I don't know if I'm clouding the issue, but there is a Caroline Devonshire of the right age in the Eton Union Workhouse in the 1841 census. If this is her, I can't think where Devonshire fits into this. Does anyone have a clue where I might go from here, I'm so desperate to try and unravel all of this.

Just a thought but if she was Italian then maybe she had the children christened Catholic Italian women, even now, often use their maiden name in a double barreled surname. Sheila

Denise I would say that was her maiden name I have a family where all the boys had King as their middle name and it wasn't until I got the marriage allegation that I could fit the name in.

Do you have Caroline's marriage cert for the marriage to John F Rengger, you say she gave her name as Caroline Quirolla Thompson but what was her father's name? That should at least tell us if Quirolla, Thompson or Devonshire was her maiden name.

Know it wont help much but there is a marriage for John Kempe Devonshire John Kempe Devonshire Year of Registration: 1873 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Pancras (1837-1901) County: London, Middlesex Volume: 1b Page: 111 (click to see others on page) and heres the choices of bride John Kempe Devonshire 1873 Jan-Feb-Mar Pancras (1837-1901) London, Middlesex View Record Sarah Lord Fone 1873 Jan-Feb-Mar Pancras (1837-1901) London, Middlesex View Record Matilda Florence Robinson 1873 Jan-Feb-Mar Pancras (1837-1901) London, Middlesex Results per page 10 20 50 Viewing 1-4 of 4

Sheila - I'm being thick, what difference would it make if they were christened into the catholic faith, which as you say is highly likely? Judith, great idea, can't think why I haven't thought of that, I've had the details for ages! Dawn, sadly that cannot be the marriage as is is nearly 30 years after William, the son, was born! I forgot to put in the original posting that I've found a marriage for Caroline Maria Devonshire (I know for certain Maria was her middle name) in 1845 on freebmd, but the page view shows 3 women and 5 mens names, two of those being the same name, and no sign of a Thompson! Thank you so much for your help all of you.

Denise If william gave his name as Devonshire on his marriage cert how do you come about the thompson name?

the John Kempe Devonshire who married in Pancras in 1873 is probably the one who was there in 1871 , aged 36 and died in Lutterworth in 1881 aged 47 so too young to be William's dad. But there was also a John Kempe Devonshire who died in Truro in 1856. Perhaps this one was William's dad - though this is of no help in sorting out if Caroline was married to him. Update - John Kempe Devonshire born 1 Dec 1804, baptised 1 Jan 1805 in Truro, son of John Ferris Devonshire and Harriot

What about a birth cert for one of her children? Should give her maiden name.

Dawn You can see why I'm confused! I get Thompson because as I said, on his daughters birth certificate one year after his marriage, her father was named as William Devonshire Thompson. Again, this birth certificate was handed down to me by a relative. I grew up knowing that my grandmother's (Williams daughter) family was called Thompson, so was surprised to see Devonshire on the marriage certificate. If I could only locate William's birth certificate, I might get an answer there. Denise

Alexandra I can't find any of the births registered for William or his brothers Arthur or Louis, but if I could find some for the Rengger marriage, would she necessarily have to give her actual maiden name, great idea if so!!

Denise have you got them on any other census what does it give surname as on them?

it would probably say on the rengger formally thomson and then maiden name

In 1851 they were all Thompson, by 1861 ownards she had become Rengger and the three boys remained Thompson.

Dawn Guess what I've just been ordering online!!! :-)

might be a cert lol have you seen judith has updated her answer above

Judith I've already been in contact with someone on here about that particular John Kempe Devonshire, but we came to the conclusion that it wasn't very likely. I now believe that William was illegitimate, and could produce all sorts of stories as to how they might be connected, but cannot prove any of it! I don't think I'll ever know the real truth of William's birth. All sorts of rumours in the family about 'rich connections' now long gone! lol! I would like to establish Caroline's maiden name though and if possible find out more about her family.

Denise If they are Catholic you wont find them on the IGI. It took me 4 years to find my G Grandfathers who was the only one out of 5 children to be christened Catholic.....and I only found out because my cousin sent me some old paperwork and one piece of paper was tucked in with all the old stuff she sent. Ive since found out that the registers are held in Kensington for the Middlesex/London area Sheila

Sheila - brilliant! I'm certain they must have been catholic, so that's a whole different path opened up! To all of you who've taken time to reply, thank you so much, you've all helped so much and I've got a lot more to work on than I did an hour or so ago. If I make a breakthrough I'll let you all know.

Heres the web page for Catholic records in London http://westminsterarchives.blogspot,com/