Genealogy Chat

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im really struggling to find my great great grandad on the 1861 or 1871 census. the 1871 census on 1837 doesnt seem to cover manchester and the only person I can find that I think would be right on the 1861 is an 8 year old lodger. As yet I cant find any link between the 8 year old lodger and the 2 adults he is staying with. There is a 12 year old boy with the same surname as my 8 yr old lodger who may be a brother or cousin. Ive seen young lodgers before but always with an adult relative. The 12 yr old seems to work in the warehouse owned by the head of house and his wife is a house holder??? is that the same as housewife? There are no other children on the census than the 2 young lodgers. The 8yr old is down as a scholar. I also dont have access to the 1851 census to look up the 12 year old to see where he is then if anyone could help? I am assuming something happened to the parents which meant that the 12 yr old had to go out and work to support him and his younger brother. I dont know Any suggestions??? Many thanks Rebecca x

What was your Great Grandads name & when & where was he born? Georgina.

if you put names and ages down perhaps we can look for you Jeanette

He is Joseph Frost I have him in the 1st quarter of 1854 in Salford. In the 1881, 91 and 1901 census he is with his wife Alice/Lavina/Levina aged 27, 36 adn 48 respectively in the census info. I have found in 1871 census... NEAL, Joseph Head Married M 48 Coffee Mill Maker Birmingham NEAL, Emma Wife Married F 48 House Holder Birmingham FROST, Edwin Lodger Unmarried M 12 Works In Warehouse Manchester FROST, Joseph Lodger Unmarried M 8 Scholar Manchester -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RG number: RG09 Piece: 2928 Folio: 36 Page: 1 Registration District: Manchester Sub District: 1 Ancoats EnumerationDistrict: Ecclesiastical Parish: St Peters Civil Parish: Manchester Municipal Borough: Manchester Address: 6, Jersey Street, Manchester which I think is him but Im not sure

sorry, thats the 1861 census info I have found a posible him on. and he was born Q1 1845 Volume: 8d Page: 92

There is this for an Edwin in 1861: Edwin Frost Age: 2 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849 Relation: Son Father's name: Edward Mother's name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Manchester Civil Parish: Manchester Ecclesiastical parish: St George Town: Manchester County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View Image Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: Ancoats ED, institution, or vessel: 1a Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 80 Household Members: Name Age Benjamin Frost 1 Mo Edward Frost 27 - Basket Maker Edwin Frost 2 Mary Frost 25 William Frost 3 As you have Jospeh's birth ref, ordering the certificate would give you his parents' names. As for youngest lodger, my grandfather is listed as a boarder with an unconnected family, aged 4, with two girls who I think are his sisters but as I can't find his birth, I can't prove it. Neither can I find his parents or other siblings on the same census, although I can find them later.

thank you pamela R x

Hi Pamela Ive found Edward and Mary in the 1861 census with their children, minus Edwin and Joseph, in Ancoats. The have a boarder and a house servant living with them. wonder why two of their sons are lodging elsewhere when one of them is still at school and they have taken in 2 lodgers. Very strange. I have a bit of info about my great grandad father, but nothing about Joseph. Thanks for the info though

Rebecca This won't help you find him or his parents, but don't forget, a census entry is only a snapshot of one night in ten years. The parents may have been away visiting relatives, working in another area, staying with neighbours etc. A 12 year old being at work is not significant then, most 12 year olds would have been working unless the family was very well-to-do. If the parents were dead, then it is possible that the two children had taken lodgings with a neighbour/relative etc. There often turns out to be some sort of family connection if you dig deep enough - a 12 year old would hardly have earned enough to pay board and keep for two, so there may be an element of relationship here. As I said, won't help you find the parents, or even connect these two children to your relative. OC

Sorry Old Crone, part of it was just me thinking out loud. I know I have to wait for Joseph's birth certificate to come through as Joesph and Edwin may not be brothers as it wouldnt state that on the census info. I was just trying to do a bit more digging whilst I was waiting and I dont have access to the 1871 census or the 1851 census which would help fill in bits of the picture.

and it is definately one of the 2 children who are my relatives, not the people who they are lodging with.

What about this in 1871 - look who is Edwin's brother Edwin Frost Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Lydia Gender: Male Where born: Lancashire, England, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: St Matthew Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View Image Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: Deansgate ED, institution, or vessel: 14 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 363 Household Members: Name Age Catherine Casey 15 Edwin Frost 26 Edwin Frost 6 Hannah Frost 1 Joseph Frost 4 Joseph Frost 19 - BROTHER Lydia Frost 27

Pamela You're a star, who's lill Jospeh Frost aged 4 though? I've had two siblings named the same before, but only because the elder ones died at a young age and so the parents have named a sibling a couple of years later the same name, never both alive at the same time before. does it say who Lydia is? that name rings a bell

sorry, got too giddy and didnt read it properly. Lydia being Edwins wife and Joseph aged 4 being his son? Thank you

I have an 'edward' (easy mistake to make I expect) Frost in 1871 Name: Edward Frost Age: 22 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849 Relation: Lodger Gender: Male Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: St Peter Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 39 Blopound/Blopom St/Blofom St? (stupid swirly writing... I trawled back cause the recorder had obviously written it so many times they got lazy, but still couldn't decipher it properly - I've saved the original image if you want to try and work it out) Occupation: Paper [something like Haug**?!] Condition as to marriage: mrr Disability: Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: Ancoats ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 168 Household Members: Name Age Elizth Cook 54 Richard Cook 58 Anne Frost 21 Edward Frost 22 Saml Frost 20 months Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 4029; Folio: 54; Page: 32; GSU roll: 846327.

If he was born in 1845 then he wouldn't be 8 on the 1861 census. Also, I can see adding a year or two but the Edwin in the other 1871 census is 4 years older than you'd expect. If I were you, I'd wait until you have the birth cert as these could all be nothing to do with your family/or the birth cert might not be him. There are too many discrepencies, I know that there are little things that can change but there just seems too much uncertainty. Edit - just reread and now I'm confused, was Edwin born in 1845 or Joseph? Assuming now that it's Edwin, in 1861 he would be 15/6 not 12, so I would guess that your lodgers might not be your boys after all. But the 1871 with Lydia and family, could well be. Liz

1861 Census, Name: Edwin Frost Age: 16 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845 Relation: Son Mother's name: Sarah Gender: Male Where born: Manchester Civil Parish: Manchester Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew Town: Manchester County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 16 Fleet Street Occupation: Worker in a Manchester Warehouse Condition as to marriage: unm Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: Deansgate ED, institution, or vessel: 25 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 15 Household Members: Name Age Edwin Frost 16 Emma Frost 18 (unm [something] spiner Mary Ann Frost 12 (Goes to school) Sarah Frost 40 (mrr, wife, Shirt Maker) Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2942; Folio: 71; Page: 4; GSU roll: 543053. On the original image, there is an untranscribed 'Joseph Frost 9' listed. I dunno how they haven't transcribed it as it's clear as day. Can send you the image if you need.

They also missed off Harriet 12mo(? the 2 is funny) and Mary 4. Dunno what was happening with that particular transcriber.

Hi Liz its the Joseph Frost, born 1854 Im trying to trace pre 1881 census. The only Joseph I could find was lodging with a couple who had no children and there was an Edwin frost with him, aged 12. I dont know if Edwin was Joseph's brother or cousin or something as it only gives relation to head of house, not each other. R x