Genealogy Chat

Hi. I have been searching through birth and death index for my mums baby brother,but can't find it anywhere.He only lived a couple of weeks, so would the birth have been registerd or would his birth be done at the same time as death reg? I thought i would find one or the other.Mums says he really did exist although she was about 4 at the time.He was Joseph William Wray or William Joseph born about 1940 ,Ashton u lyne ,Lancashire. I have even looked under his mothers maiden name of Gilbert,but found nothing.Are my eyes going or what? Thanks Donna

I've looked at births from 1939 to 1943 and can't find him. Please don't take offence, but since this was during the war, could the baby have been born whilst his mother's husband was away at war, and the baby given up for adoption rather than died. He could have been registered in his adoptive parent's name. Just thinking out loud really to try to find an explanation of why you can't find his birth. Is your mother sure of the age she was at the time? Memory sometimes plays tricks on us. Kath. x

Donna, What do you know about the baby's father? Sounds like it happened during the war so it could be possible he had a different father to your mother. Did your mother have any older sisters? Could he have belonged to them? Rose

Hi, I checked on Cheshire BMD which covers Ashton and nothing under either surnames. Christine

There is a birth registration in 1946 for a Robert William Wray, in Preston. (Lancsbmd). Otherwise remarkably few births/deaths for Wray - a few for Reay and Ray. OC

Not sure what to think .Mum was their only daughter and only had this one brother.Her father was born in 1900 so was about 40 at the time and not in the war.He signed up just before baby born and came home for so called funeral.The baby did have something wrong-maybe handicaped,not sure.All seems a bit odd.My mum was taken to her grans when he was born.Could he have been put in some kind of home or Hospital if he hadn't died?

Donna Yes, if he was handicapped, he would almost certainly have been put in a home, and people would have been told that he had died. Perhaps you need to widen your search for his death....how terribly sad. OC

Where do i start to search? Have not come across this sort of problem before.What site do i search for homes/insitutes etc...?Could he have been adopted?Thanks.

Well, I would look for his death first, although of course, he may still be alive..... Perhaps if you can pin down his birth first, that would at least give you an area to search. As it was wartime (as far as you know) it is quite possible that the mother gave birth in another district - expectant mothers were sent to the countryside wherever possible. Sadly, your story is more common than you might think.(If it is indeed true). I have seen a site for transcriptions of deaths in a huge county mental institution. The transcriptions are a labour of love by a man who discovered that his 'dead' baby brother was in fact in an institution until he died at the age of 42. It was the norm in those days for Doctors to tell parents to put a handicapped child into a home and forget about it. Most parents obeyed as they thought the Doctor knew best. OC

Thankyou to everyone who gave me an anwser especially OC.Donna

Would the child enter into an insitution with given name of Joseph William Wray? Is it likely that it could have been changed.Where would his birth be registerd?

Do you know where your Mum started school? I'm thinking that it would be about the time that her brother was born and may indicate a birth area. Gwyn

Maybe the baby was baptised. Parish registers just might help with a birthdate, if you locate a probable area, ...maybe even near the grandparents home. Gwyn

She went to school and lived in Dukinfield ,Cheshire with the rest of the family. Grandparents also in Dukinfield.Ashton u lyne ,Lancs next town and Hyde ,Cheshire the town on the other side.Would i get any joy by visiting the local cemetary in Dukinfield.

Some areas have computerised records of burials and would be able to search for a name. It depends how common the surname is in that area. In the circumstances I would concentrate on the birth, because you have a reasonable time frame. He could have lived many years but was never spoken of. How do you know the child's name? Could it be that he was known by a given name other than his registered name.? eg. registered James but called Joseph. Gwyn

Mum told me his name he was named after his father Joseph William Wray. I suppose he could have been reg of another family name.

Depending on how much money you want to throw at this, you could ask the LOCAL register office to do a search for his birth. They will do a three year search for £11.50, I think. Wray does not seem to be a very common name in the area, and you can give his mother's name as a checking point. He may have been registered as 'male'. I agree - pin down his birth first, as that will give you a time frame to search. OC

just spoken to mum and she is adiment that he died.Her dad came home for compassionate leave and bought a small coffin. He was buried in Dukinfield cemetary in the catholic part or so my mum said. HE WAS PUT IN WITH A WOMAN THAT DIED THE SAME TIME.Don't know if thats true.I will start with contacting the cemetery and see what they have.If there is no trace of him then i will follow the lead that he was put away.I though every birth had to be registerd.

If he was buried with someone else, then he would not have had a coffin - the norm was to put the baby in the arms of the dead adult. However, that is hair-splitting. If he was stillborn, then his birth and death will not have been registered in the normal way. He may appear on the register of Stillbirths, but you will have to apply in writing to the Superintendant Registrar, and I THINK it is only next of kin who can get details. OC

Here are some Wray births between 1933 and 43 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference WRAY Barbara Dorothy Stockport Third Stockport ST3/37/70 WRAY Doreen Ashton Town Tameside AST/217/29 WRAY Jack Ashton Town Tameside AST/215/37 WRAY John Ashton Town Tameside AST/215/42 WRAY Katherine Marple Stockport MAR/2A/27 WRAY Marline Bollington Cheshire East BOL/47/85 Total records matching : 6 . 1936-38 WRAY Arthur Stockport Third Stockport ST3/38/8 WRAY Dorothy Ashton Town Tameside AST/219/66 WRAY Edith Knutsford Cheshire East KNU/1A/17 WRAY John Knutsford Cheshire East KNU/1A/75 WRAY Kathleen Wilmslow Cheshire East WIL/49/50 Total records matching : 5 . Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1939 to 1940 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference WRAY Anthony Stalybridge Tameside STB/2B/43 WRAY Sylvia Stockport Third Stockport ST3/5/40 Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1939 to 1940 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference WRAY Anthony Stalybridge Tameside STB/2B/43 WRAY Sylvia Stockport Third Stockport ST3/5/40 Total records matching : 2 . Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1941 to 1942 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference WRAY Joan Mossley Tameside MOS/2A/18 WRAY Renee Stalybridge Tameside STB/2B/90 Total records matching : 2 . There are a few in Ashton but don't know if this will help. Christine