Genealogy Chat

Can anyone offer advice or guidance please? I need to trace a birth record, but I don't have any information apart from the year! I have a marriage cert for my G father but I only know his details as supplied by that document, does anyone have any idea how I can get a birth record when I don't know where he was born??? is there any way at all of tracing backwards, as it were, from the marriage cert.? It's very frustrating! Ta, Barb

Hi Barb Let's have a few details and then we can have a look. Name - place of marriage - age on marriage cert - father's name, occupation of him and his father. ... Jill

hi if you have your grandads death cert, if this occurred after 1960 it should give his DOB on it. start with what you know, death/ then marriage/ then birth.... repeat the process until you reach 1901 then use the census, to find the families, back to 1841 hope this helps Julie

Hi Jill, My paternal grandfather was Thomas William Ayres and he married Ellen Mary Dean in Exeter in 1916. His age was given as 35. His father was William Ayres, Baker by trade, deceased at time of Thomas's marriage. Rumour has it that Thomas was brought up by his Grandparents, but I don't know whether paternal or maternal and my mum has vague recollections of them coming from Stoke on Trent or 'The Potteries' but couldn't say whether they originated from there or gravitated there or even were ever there! sooooo frustrating - why oh why didn't I start this when my dad was alive to answer questions! Any suggestions on how to proceed would be gratefully received. Barb

Hi Julie Thanks for your reply, I don't have a death record ,not found it yet. Just a marriage cert. and I don't know place of birth to pinpoint him on a census - there are a lot of Thomas William Ayres's out there! Barb

His birth would have been 1880/1. I've looked on 1881 census........no result for a William Ayres whose occupation was Baker. 1901 only shows one William/Baker combination...........and he's only 17! What was Thomas's occupation when he married? Reg

Hi Barbara, This is the only one that comes on free BMD which more or less fits the age March Qtr 1880 Ayres Thomas William Witney 3a 782 Christine

Hi Barb Nothing obvious on Ancestry. What about his wife? How old is she on marriage cert and what is her father's name and occupation? Chances are they married where she lived - I know that's not always the case but it's usually the wife's church - let's try that first. If we assume (dangerous to do so but ...) that he's living nearby at time of marriage - he may have been living nearby for some time ... Of course, it being war time he may have been stationed there - wonder if he was in the army or navy - any family memories of that? Jill

Hi all, thanks for the responses. Jill - wife Ellen Mary Dean born 1880 in Ottery St Mary, Devon. I have detailed coverage of her side of family, it is the Ayres side which are causing probs. The marriage was at the Parish church of St James, Exeter and they were both living at16 May Street at the time. Thomas was in the Army Reserve . They later moved to Southampton, Hants where my father, also Thomas William Ayres, was born in 1917. As I said originally, I don't even know for sure where he was born or where he grew up so I'm really stuck. Thanks again for helping. Barb

Hi again Following Christine's suggetion - is there anyone out there who could /would do a look-up for this birth record to see if father's name was William? I can't afford to buy wrong cert. so would really appreciate help with narrowing down the search. March Qtr 1880 Ayres Thomas William Witney 3a 782 Thank you Barb

The only way to see what is on a birth cert is to buy it...........you cannot view English bmd certs. Have you checked the census to try to find that particular individual? 1881 is free on both Ancestry and the LDS website Reg

Well looking on the 1891 census it seems that Thomas William Ayres was in the Witney Union Workhouse with his two brothers (mistranscribed as Aynes) born in Eynsham (which comes under the Witney district). His brothers are George and James aged 6 and 7. James is a servant in 1901. It is possible that both Thomas and George may have been serving in the Boer War during the 1901 census as I cannot find them then. It may be that their parents died and they were orphaned and ended up in the workhouse. I cannot find Thomas in 1881. You could always contact the local records office which covers the Witney area and ask them to supply the birth cert only if the fathers name is William. Who were the witnesses to Thomas's marriage? Alex

Thanks Reggie and Alex I have looked for census entries on Ancestry.co ( I subscribed so can see all) but without knowing place of birth I can’t pinpoint him. The Witney entry suggested by Christine is only a possibility because of the date, it’s all so frustrating when you only have a marriage cert. And can’t find death record (he died in Southampton around 1953/4/5 but I haven’t found the record yet) and the only info. I have on his parents is the name and occupation of his father and the fact that he was described as deceased on the 1916 marriage cert. It is possible that he was orphaned – again, I don’t know of any siblings – but family memory has it that he was raised by grandparents………one of those infamous Brick Walls! I may have to try the Witney office as suggested, but don’t they make a search charge even if it turns out to be the wrong one? (I’m on incapacity benefit and have to watch what I spend!) Alex – in reply to your question, the witnesses were John Laurence and Harry Flay –neither name rings any bells so I don’t think they were relatives. Thanks again for your efforts Barb

If you send your application to the relevant register office, and say please send the certificate if his father is ..........., and enclose an SAE, then they would return your cheque if they cannot find the correct person, and should not make any charge. The GRO would make a charge.

Joy - thank you for that info., I'll try what you suggest. Barb

You're welcome. Hope you don't mind me giving another nudge to a couple of threads about obtaining certificates from register offices.

I am assuming the likely one is the Southampton death. I will see how many births there are to see if i can narrow it down for you Barbara, i have spoken to my partner who has over 30 years experience of searching, & the conclusion we have come to if your man died in th 1950's it is the mar 1951 man born 1874. I have cross referenced the approx year of birth with each death with a year either side for a birth. The only one without a death in the 1950''s is the witney birth. You have a choice as you are pretty definate that he died in the 1950's, order the death cert & see who registered it, or take a chance on the birth. Remembering that sometimes on marriage certs they lied about there age, & put in any fathers names if they were illigitimate. I hope that the info i have found helps you. (My gut instinct is the first one.) Ihave searched all the Deaths between 1950 & 1960 inclusive Thomas W Ayres Mar 1951 Southampton 6b 888 age 77 born circa 1874 Birth reference Thomas William Ayres Dec 1874 Hull 9d 215 Thomas W Ayres Dec 1953 Coventry 9c 707 age 53 Birth ref Thomas W Ayres Mar 1900 Rugby 6d 656a Thomas W Ayres death ref Dec 1955 Bedford 4a 42 age 72 birth ref 1883 Dec 1883 Bedford 3b 324 Thomas W Ayres Mar 1960 Swindon 7c 632 age 68 Birth ref Thomas W Ayres 1892 Highworth 5a 3 Births only no death 1950 - 1960 Thomas W Ayres Mar 1880 Witney 3a 782

Sandra, you are doing better than I have - the Southampton one got me all excited - then I realised the birth date is too early - he was born 1880/1 and I'm pretty sure he died in the 1953-55 period ( I was born in 1953 and we lived in my grandma's house with her - I have no memory of my granddad, and Mum reckons he died around 1954) But feel free to keep looking! I am still looking on Ancestry.co but can't seem to narrow the search enough i.e. getting all years instead of 1953-5! Thanks again Barb

Barbara i'm just checking the 1880 - 1882 births, as you said he was 35 on the marriage cert. But there is a possibility he lied about being 35 & was a few years older. If she was much younger than hinm to m,ake it look better The deaths on message above are the only ones in a 10 year period Please see my finished message above

Sandra - my Grandma was born in 1880 so she was younger than him, this is born out by marriage cert. which has her age as 36 and his as 35, so it's unlikely he lied about his age I think Barb