Genealogy Chat

Huh - I got If your writing was legible I might be able to check your spelling and grammar. Detention on Wednesday for writing practise. Clive

MGH S Well spotted! You'll probably find errors like that in many of my postings as my typing is rubbish. I do check it through, of course, but the human brain is very good at suggesting that what we expect to be there is there. Looks like I'll have to be more careful from now on! LOL OC, I completely agree that spelling errors are not really that important as long as the meaning is clear. Regards Amanda

Gillian You may be dyslexic - but your message was perfectly composed and I cannot see any spelling mistakes! You have proved my point. OC

In the late 1980's I was working for 'The Service for Visually Impaired' I supported children in a main stream school. The new trend there was 'emergent writing' This at times was impossible to read and was deemed very discouraging to indicate anything was other than correct to the child. The child had to rely on memory to know what they had written! I was once asked if a girl's name was correctly spelt, I said 'nearly' and told her how it should be spelt. I got into trouble by the teacher for doing so! That has changed now and phonetics are no longer outlawed. Our Braille users did not come under the regime of that teacher, thank goodness. I am glad someone has said that dyslexic people need not worry about getting spelling wrong on here because I am dyslexic and have difficulty even looking up words in the dictionary.

OC I know you didn't mean that. That's not what I was getting at. This is a perfect example of how it can be difficult to understand when we have only the words to rely on. My point was that yes, it can very annoying when people CHOOSE to compose their messages poorly, using no punctuation whatsoever and writing a long message in one block, rather than using paragraphs: if it's just through laziness or out of some misguided notion that it's 'stylish and modern' to do so, that is. Like you, I often give up reading that sort of message after the first 'sentence' (or what would be, if a full stop had been put in). It's just too much like hard work. I was simply trying to remind people that not everyone does this through choice. Sadly, some people don't know any better.

Amanda I hope this thread will not put off anyone wanting help, who has poor literacy skills, that is not the intention of my criticism. Layout is probably the most important aid to understanding, on these boards. I give up completely when I see continuous lines of text with no punctuation or layout and I am sure many other people do too. For those who are anxious about their literacy skills - space your message out, which will make it much more understandable.You cannot do this in a header post, so put the main body of your message in a reply to your own thread heading. Spelling mistakes don't matter much on here as it is easy to see what the poster meant. (Surnames excepted! Make sure you spell your ancestors names correctly, if you want help looking them up). And Dyslexics needn't worry either - I never have any problem understanding them and I don't think anyone else does either. It is about UNDERSTANDING you - not about awarding marks out of 100 for literacy skills. OC

OC This is so true. It's so easy for people both to give and take offence at comments placed on boards such as this due to the absence of those non verbal devices, such facial expression, which we use in face to face communication. Because we don't know each others' personalities (until we've been posting for a while and get used to other regulars) we can't always pick up on sarcasm and light-heartedness, hence the use for abbreviations such as 'LOL' and exaggerated punctuation. I think these sort of abbreviations and graphical devices do have a place, if only to make clear the poster's attitude and help avoid unpleasantness. As others have said, I would never use them in any other context, including text messages (as I only text people I know, there's no need). I think this is quite a different point to that of people using all upper or all lower case letters. That does irritate me if it's the result of laziness. As you rightly say, we all use the same code to interpret what we read, and punctuation is the key. Having said that, I know that many people, who are unsure of the conventions of the written language, hide behind this style as it covers any possible errors which might otherwise be obvious. It makes it much harder to read (I dislike all capitals, especially) but I would rather people type any way they can rather than feel they can't take part and post messages along with everyone else. For some people who have poor Literacy skills, it will have taken a lot of bravery for them to take that step.

Amanda Even in my day, expression was considered cautiously important, but it firmly knew its place - in a once-weekly exercise called 'Composition' where a child was allowed to fantasise beyond the need for communication. All other work was ruthlessly corrected for spelling, layout and grammar. No worries about cramping a child's style, the reason for teaching 'English' was to instil various (important) rules, to enable the child to communicate, and understand, the written word, to other people, who had learned the same rules, and would interpret what was written according to those rules. Text speak is fine on a phone, as is the disjointed way we communicate face to face, often using less than perfect English, which would not make sense were it written down - we rely on body language to make sense of what we say. This is impossible in a written medium like this board. We need to communicate in a formal way on here, so that we can understand each other, because we do not have the other props available in less formal settings. This is not about being pedantic - it is about understanding what has been written. OC

You're wrong Bernard. The pteradactyls were so big everyone ran for cover. Clive

Well OC & Clive, when I started school it was very exciting. We chiselled our letters onto stones and the teachers had to shoo the pteradactyls off the playing fields.!! It is so nice to see that some younger people value construction and spelling above 'content'. In fact, I'll propose a toast. To yerze and yaws. And to them as think there children their are more important than wot yours are than your'se. See a post about 'Pedants' Too much tongue in my cheek I'm sorry Bernie

I'm an English tutor at an FE college. I'm fortunate enough to teach a wide range of students at very different levels. A large part of my weekly timetable is spent teaching Literacy to adults. The students range from those with mild learning difficulties who are trying to master the basic skills of reading and writing through those who have discovered, on applying to join HE or degree courses, that they need GCSE English or its equivalent and have joined us to 'brush up' and get a nationally recognised qualification (you might have seen the 'Get On' campaign with the ugly gremlin character on TV) and even post graduates who want to do PGCEs but have been told they will not be accepted onto a course until they improve their spellings and punctuation. I'm also involved in embedding Literacy 'Key Skills' into vocational courses. At the same time I teach English Language at GCSE and A level. Part of the issue is the conflict between content and form. For many years the trend in schools (and in traditional A level English) had been to focus more on ideas and their expression rather than the underpinning knowledge of grammar, punctuation and spelling. In other words, what is written is more important than how it is written. Even in exams, points might not be lost if an imaginative and creative text is misspelt and poorly punctuated. the cervashious ebbonny colored feeline sat on the pershian rug might be viewed as superior to The fat cat sat on the mat. Fortunately, this (in my opinion) damaging trend is being reversed and children are, once again, being taught the grammatical frameworks of English at primary school. It will probably take another ten years for this to become noticeable. It's very frustrating to spend half of my working week trying to remedy the results of past educational trends that have gone badly wrong. Please, don't think it's just down to poor teaching.

Capitals for surnames seems a good idea, Diana, it does make them stand out well. I will remember that in future.

Clive I just missed copperplate! I learned to write the 'Marion Richardson' way (I think that is the name), which is a simplified 'roundhand' copperplate. I moved schools when I was ten, to an area which taught Italic handwriting - I never got the hang of that, and they left me alone eventually. OC

OC said I went to school at a time when education was dull, boring and unimaginative in the extreme. My words are I went to school at a time when education was dull, boring and unimaginative in the extreme. but whereas OC says she learnt to write properly in my case they tried to teach me copperplate (yes, with copy books to copy from). I still can't write properly but I'm not too bad at reading census forms!!! Clive

Do you mean in the message title? I think thats fine, I usually do something like that - but using all caps in a message immediately makes me flick to another one as it hurts my eyes to read them. But yes, its a good idea to have the name you are interested in in caps.

I do think writing surnames in capitals might be a good idea. The threads on here with 'Who are we looking for in....' - I always find it difficult to search through if the names aren't in capitals, it helps make them stand out! Laura

Hi I agree with all the reasons noted above but I do write the names I am looking for in messages on this board with first name starting with a capital and surname all capitals At my Family history class this was the way we were told to write names on our pedigree files. Using the surname in all capitals helps it to stand out. For example Diana DOUGLAS

I do that, Laura. I write text messages in full sentences, I use punctuation, I absolutely hate all the abbreviations, won't use them and I'm nearly 23. Having a look round my degree show tonight, it is astonishing how many people had final, finished work on display with glaringly obvious spelling mistakes. Whether they're not good with spelling or whether they're not good at proof-reading I don't know, but it is frightening that it is possible to get a place at university, study for three years and still not be able to spell everyday words. The sad thing is, I don't think it will reflect well on students if prospective employers come round to our show, because if they see misspelt work, they'll be thinking, 'Great designer, but they obviously don't pay attention to detail because there are spelling errors'. Also, on a formatting note, it's amazing what a difference paragraphs make when used in a longer piece of writing.

OK, I'm 24 and a primary school teacher. I text ALL the time, (capitals used here for emphasis) but hate text speak and refuse to use it. I find posts all in capitals extremely irritating, as well as those all in lower case letters. Please don't say it's just young people though, as I know plenty of people older than me that do the same thing. As for the education system, I work in it but don't get me started..... Laura

There are some compensations for being old....I went to school at a time when education was dull, boring and unimaginative in the extreme. But I can read, write and spell correctly. OC