Genealogy Chat

Is it possible that a person could use a different surname and add a ficticious father to the marriage certificate in order to get married in 1870? I have a marriage which I am sure is the correct one but the surname of the 'bride' and her father are wrong!

Fictitious father more than likely if someone was illegitimate and wanted to hide the fact Brides surname tho well she may have been brought up by a step dad and adopted his name or was reg in her mums name cos she was illegitimate or all sorts of reasons for a change depends how much you can verify its the right one. Shirley

On all the childrens birth certificates the mothers maiden name is Morris yet on the marriage certificate it is Brown. She was definately a Morris as I have her parents marriage. maybe because she was only 17 at time of marriage she used a different name. She has her father as George Brown on marriage cert yet her father was Thomas Morris. This gets more confusing!!

My great grandfather's name is incorrect. It had me stumped for a while. His father's christian name and occupation is correct, and the all the brides details are correct. I don't know if it was an error or deliberate. They were married in the next parish and my great grandmother was 8 months pregnant with my grandfather.

if you are sure its her then seems she wanted to get married but didnt have permission so she fabricated her name and father BUT if her age is shown then she must have had some sort of a parental permission to give to the vicar

I would suggest that you may possibly have the wrong cert......what was the name of the husband? At 17, she would have needed her father's consent......... Reg

What makes you so sure that it's the right one? I mean why are you convinced and perhaps we can help. What were the witnesses called?

Just re read your info. so mums maiden name was Morris and her married name too if the the father was Thomas Morris Im a bit lost!! I think you may have the wrong marraige cert

Ok let me try to explain... Henry Freeman married Mary Brown... father George Brown Dec 1870 in Durham. The first child's birth certificate has Mary nee Brown as the mother. All the rest of the children including my grandfather have Mary nee Morris as the mother. I know for fact that Morris is correct yet I cannot find a marriage for Henry Freeman to Mary Morris. I thought at first that Henry's first wife..Mary Brown must have died but I cannot find a death before the second child (who's mother is Mary nee Morris). Then I thought they may have divorced but why would she leave the child. The child is with Henry and Mary Morris on the next census along with the rest of the children. There is no marriage for Henry and Mary (Morris). I am getting more confused as time goes on. Any help would be appreciated.

Could you give us the details from 1871 census, please. We need to know where these people were born.......... Reg

'Why would she leave the child?' If they really WERE divorced, which seems unlikely, she would not have been able to keep the child - children belonged to their fathers and they automatically got custody of them, except in the most, erm, exceptional cases. OC

The only Henry and Mary I can find in 1871 census are Henry age 24 born Darlington and Mary age 17 born Darlington. The marriage to Mary Brown was Dec 1870 and cert says she is 18. 1881 census details are ; Ryton on Tyne Henry Freeman age 36 born Oxfordshire Mary Freeman age 28 born Newcastle Joseph age 7 born Newcastle Jane Lizzie age 5 born Newcastle Robert Henry age 3 born Ryton,Durham Henry age 1 born Ryton, Durham Mary remarries in 1899 (Henry dies 1890) and her marriage certificate says Mary Freeman widow and her father is Thomas Morris. Joseph's mother is Mary Freeman formerly Brown ... the rest are formerly Morris. Have I got two Mary's here or are they the same person? Thank you all for your time in trying to help me.

What was the name of the child born just after the marriage? Reg

It sounds to me like the man married two different Mary's. Have you looked for a birth for Mary Brown? (common name I know, but you're looking for a Mary Brown, father called George. Some registry offices will do the check on the cert for free before you purchase). If the first Mary didnt die then there is a chance they never divorced and his second 'wife' may not have been married to him. I can't think of a reason why a woman would change her maiden name part way through a marriage and change the name of her father. Look for birth entries for both Marys. Liz

Is it possible you have the wrong birth certificate for Joseph? Is the father's occupation the same on his certificate as on the other children's?

The 1881 census states that Henry was born in Oxfordshire, it is unlikely that that he would have said in 1871 that he was born in Darlington.........unless, of course, the enumerator made an error. Reg

Joyce......... I've looked at 1871, and I can't see anyone matching the details you quote........these are all the results when I input Henry Freeman coupled with Durham Henry Freeman Elizabeth abt 1851 Yarmouth, Norfolk, England Son Bishop Wearmouth Durham Henry Freeman Jane abt 1854 South Shields, Durham, England Son Westoe Durham Henry C Freeman Henry Chamberlain, Mary Ann abt 1864 Sunderland, Durham, England Son Bishop Wearmouth Durham Henry Chamberlain Freeman Mary Ann abt 1830 Yarmouth, Norfolk, England Head Bishop Wearmouth Durham Henry G Freeman William, Ann abt 1856 Weston On The Green, Oxfordshire, England Son St John Durham Could you please give us the full 1871 details, including the name etc for the child............ Reg

The first child born was Joseph .. born Jul 1873 mother Mary Freeman formerly Brown. next child was Jane Elizabeth born Jun 1875 mother Mary Freeman formerly Morris. My grandfather was next Robert Henry in 1877. The marriage to Mary Brown was Dec 26 1870 Darlington Durham. The only Henry I can find that sort of fits on the 1871 census is the one where place of birth is Darlington, which makes me think there could be 2 Henry's and 2 Mary's . The birth certificate for Joseph though makes me think that the Henry could be the same one !! Help !!

What do the various sources (marriage & birth cert, and census) say that Henry's occupation is?

Joyce Did you see my question re the birth certificate and the father's occupation?