Genealogy Chat

There seems to be confusion over his birth date Pension record says b 13/5/1913 but baptism date 4th May 1913 - 9 days before his birth!!

Expiry date on the pension record is 13/5/1929 ie his supposed 16th birthday which was the usual

I once went to. FH talk. The person giving it said his daughters marriage was completely left off the list

I've known registrations to be missing from either FreeBMD or GRO - but not both.

But I suppose it's not impossible!

It maybe worth the poster ringing the GRO in Southport to check if there is a registration as names have always been missed off the index......

This is the only illegitimate James birth registered in the right quarter of 1913, in the Birmingham area (though of course location could be anywhere):

JAMES, HOWARD CHANDLER -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 1632 Occasional Copy: A

But it's NOT him.

His mother's marriage:

Marriages Sep 1914 (>99%)
CHANDLER Howard H James W. Bromwich 6b 1658
JAMES Ivy F Chandler W. Bromwich 6b 1658

In 1921, Ivy and her husband are in Kingswinford, Worcs. - with young Howard, now with surname Chandler.



Maybe James was his birth first name - such as James Cheslin, whose birth I posted earlier.

Maybe as no birth is registered and a then quick baptism from birth...he may not have been a child of the Butwell?

Very possible his correct surname was James..?

A DNA from the BUtwell blood line could prove or not.

I have been in contact with Sarah. She provided me with a WW2 Service number for William Arthur Butwell/James. National Archive records provided a date of birth against that Service number and I have passed the DOB information on to her.

I've had a look on the Gazette to see if there was a name change listing printed there.
Nothing found

Thanks everyone, I have the baptism record and pension ledgers (also noted the different dobs, typo?). It’s the actual birth register I cannot find.

In 1939 register I believe he had changed his name to James and was living in a boarding house in Camphill Birmingham prior to enlisting.

He died in 1975 in Birmingham as William Arthur James, it was at his funeral that my parents found out that he was originally a Butwell to much shock! He had remarried to Mary Bruce (his sister in law) in 1971.

Julia’s birth registered OND 1908

1921 Census Of England & Wales
195, Great Russell Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Beatrice Louisa Butwell Head Female 1886 35 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Household Duties Second -

Julia Mary Butwell Daughter Female 1909 12 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England - -

Thomas William Butwell Son Male 1911 10 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England - -

William Arthur Butwell Son Male 1912 9 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England - -

William Henry Butwell Father-in-law, boarder Male 1863 58 - Silver Polisher Out Of Work Cliffords Silver Smith

Birmingham, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1922 for William Arthur Butwell May 4 1913

Hockley, St Saviour
1899-1912

Address recorded
5 Villa Street
Cottage Place
Hockley
St Saviour

Just on the wild off-chance that he was born in Birmingham as stated, but adopted by the Butwells, these children don't appear in later records:

BROWN, ALEXANDER HENRY -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 388

CHESLIN, JAMES -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 413

EVANS, BERNARD MARTIN -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 542

EVANS, LEONARD -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 615

GRIFFITHS, GEORGE LESLIE -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 434

RALPH, NORMAN -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 579


Not that there's any way for us to investigate or prove adoption..

Fold3 result
UK, WWI, Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923

Note slight change in recorded birthdates to those posted
Sr's Service record shows William Arthur Jr DOB as 19/04/13

Full Name Butwell, Wm Arthur
Service Number 8104
Gender Male
Rank Pte
Regiment Royal Welsh Fusiliers

Relative 1
Butwell, Beatrice Louisa
Relative 1 Relation To Head
Widow
Relative 1 Birth Date
27 Jan 1887

Relative 2
Butwell, Julia May
Relative 2 Relation To Head
Child
Relative 2 Birth Date
9 Aug 1908 ***************

Relative 3
Butwell, Thomas William
Relative 3 Relation to Head
Children
Relative 3 Birth Date
26 Jan 1911

Relative 4
Butwell, William Arthur
Relative 3 Relation to Head
Children
Relative 4 Birth Date
19 May 1913 ***********************

EDIT- William's Father service record shows father's name as Butwell, WILLIAM HENRY
UK, WWI, British Army Service Records, 1914-1920

Marriage Date: 30-Sep-1907

1921…………..

Was puzzling over how he could have been recorded in 1912. Then it clicked - typo :-D

In 1912, he is recorded as being 9 years 2 months old

Is he on the 1939 register?

When/where did he die?

Changing his name certainly would not have been due to any restrictions on joining the Army.

Did he drop his second forename?

The First World War was a long way off when he was born :-S :-S

Thanks everyone for your replies, it’s really useful and I wasn’t aware of freebmd, I’d just been using GRO but their search is more clunky than freebmd. I spent an hour searching again today and even just using the surname without first name, mother’s maiden name, district I still cannot find the birth record!

My theory was that his birth was registered later due to the war but I’ve search quite a large date span and no luck.

This is what I know:
William Arthur Butwell born Birmingham 19/4/1913 according to his fathers Army service record and widows pension
Baptism May 4 1913 County of Birmingham
Father Wm Arthur Butwell - died 1915 KIA WW1 in France
Mother Beatrice Louisa nee Chinn
Siblings Julia May birth record 9/5/08 found registered in Solihull, Thomas William birth record 26/1/11 found registered in Birmingham.

Name changed to William James circa 1939, he joined RAF 1939/1940 stationed ant Finningley Notts and then potentially transferred to Army 1940-1945 ish. My father (his son) was born 1942 and he didn’t know his Dad for the first few years as he was away in Army for WW2

We don’t know much about why he changed his name, 2 theories in the family. 1 was to join the Army (maybe he wouldn’t have been allowed due to record or similar?) 2 was that he fell out with his family (I do know that his mother remarried his fathers brother/his uncle and he had younger half siblings).

Any help gratefully received
Sarah

Sometimes it is easier to get a list off freebmd, especially when you can narrow down the time or place. When I am having problems elsewhere I find being able to do this greatly helps.