Genealogy Chat

Seems still to be living in 1974

U.S. Public Records Index, 1950-1993, Volume 1

Name: Morris Ratner
Phone Number: 939-0541
Address: 95 Puritan Dr, Port Chester, NY, 10573-2505 (1974)

Celeia Silk

United States Census, 1940

Name Celeia Silk
Event Type Census
Event Date 1940
Event Place Ward 2, Perth Amboy, Perth Amboy City, Middlesex, New Jersey, United States
Gender Female
Age 54
Marital Status Married
Race (Original) White
Race White
Relationship to Head of Household (Original) Wife
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Birthplace Russia
Birth Year (Estimated) 1886
Last Place of Residence Same Place


Charles I Silk Head M 66 Hungary
Celeia Silk Wife F 54 Russia

Cecelia R Silk

United States Census, 1930

Name Cecelia R Silk
Event Type Census
Event Date 1930
Event Place Perth Amboy, Middlesex, New Jersey, United States
Gender Female
Age 44
Marital Status Married
Race White
Race (Original) White
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Relationship to Head of Household (Original) Wife
Birth Year (Estimated) 1886
Birthplace Russia
Immigration Year 1893
Father's Birthplace Russia
Mother's Birthplace Russia
Sheet Letter B
Sheet Number 4


Charles J Silk Head M 56 Hungary
Cecelia R Silk Wife F 44 Russia

A tree on Ancestry gives his marriage as

17 Feb 1917
Tupper Lake, Franklin, New York, USA
Spouse Augusta "Gussie" S Bloomberg
1889–1992

The tree owner has photos saying he is their Grandfather but has attached the SSDI which has a different dob.

U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014
Name Morris Ratner
SSN 094-26-5059
Born 20 Jul 1882
Died Sep 1974
State (Year) SSN issued New York - 1951

His headstone is featured on Findagrave
http://tiny.cc/9eta9x
You can find other Ratner's buried in the same cemetery from the same link

The same Ancestry tree has details for

Eleanor Ratner
Birth 12 JAN 1918 • New York
Death 22 MAY 2003 • Rye, Westchester, New York, United States of America

Spouse

Eugene B Stamm
Birth 14 FEB 1918 • New York
Death 19 JAN 2006 • New Orleans, Orleans, Louisiana
...........

Eleanor Ratner
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007

Eleanor Ratner
[Eleanor Ratner Stamm]
[Eleanor Stamm]
SSN: 068123129
Gender: Female
Race: White
Birth Date: 12 Jan 1918
Birth Place: Port Chester, New York
[Port Chester??, New York]
Father Name: Morris Ratner
Mother Name: Augusta S Bloomberg
Death Date: 22 May 2003
Type of Claim: Original SSN.
Notes: Jul 1939: Name listed as ELEANOR RATNER; Oct 1961: Name listed as ELEANOR RATNER STAMM; 05 Jun 2003: Name listed as ELEANOR R STAMM

Eugene Bernard Stamm
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007

Eugene Bernard Stamm
[Eugene B Stamm]
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birth Date: 13 Feb 1918
Birth Place: New York, New York
Father Name: Emanuel I Stamm
Mother Name: Rica Marks
Death Date: 19 Jan 2006
Type of Claim: Original SSN.
Notes: Aug 1939: Name listed as EUGENE BERNARD STAMM; 26 Jan 2006: Name listed as EUGENE B STAMM

well done detective + Ann

Re Morris

Are the alternative spellings for Morrice Ratner because handwriting is unclear

Its good that the dentist turns up again living with his siter in law in 1920

otherwise i might have got confused with the shop keeper

I'm guessin Jessie ratner his NOK is a transcription of Gussie .

I will look on Find agrave + see if David Ratner is buried there too

1920
Morrice Ratner
[Morris Ratner]
[Martin Ratner]
[Morris Astun]

Morris has been over-written. It looks as if it might have originally been Maurice, then changed to Morris. Goodness why there is an alternative surname, Even if they weren't sure about the atner, it deffinately starts with an R.

The next of kin on the WW1 draft form does look like Jessie. Accent?

A very kind person sent me copies of original censuses lovely to peruse

raised a couple more questions tho

Just wondered if Sadie + Matilda's profession in 1925 was actually something to do with clocks as spelt Horaculturist they were working on own account ,

Matilda's uncle david Fellman was a watchmaker !

Also in 1915 Lena Fellman was head of household in 17st Bronx aged 37 daughter Tillie was 12
she is listed with Brothers Morrise dentist aged 30
+ Samuel 26 and father Aaron aged 61 not working

I'm guessing Samuel is Ellis maybe sick already
Aaron must be David Ratner (could be middle name usage)

they were all citizens by 1930

horticulturist?

clocks would be horoligst

1925
Sadie Ratner
Birth Date: abt 1888
Birth Place: Russia
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Residence Place: Rye, Westchester
Relationship: Sister
Colour or Race: White
Number of Years in US: 32
Assembly District: 02
House Number: 59
Line Number: 33
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
Chas I Silk 51
Ecolia R Silk 38
Sadie Ratner 37

Looking at the 1925 NY census Sadie Ratner & Matilda Fellman’s occupation certainly ends ‘culturist’. The h at the beginning of housework (Lena Fellman) isn’t the same as the letter at the beginning of theirs. It could be Floraculturist ie growing flowers?

For those who don’t have access to the image…..The reason that Lena and her daughter Matilda aren’t included in the transcription is that Lena Fellman – 48, Russia – although living at the same address, is described as the head of her household.

Is this relevant for Sadie? There are quite a few Sadie Ratners around!

Sadie Ratner
U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014

Sadie Ratner
SSN: 053-03-1559
Last Residence:
11238 Brooklyn, Kings, New York, USA
BORN: 30 May 1888
Died: Apr 1974
State (Year) SSN issued: New York (Before 1951)

Findagrave has her death/burial as
Birth: unknown
Death: Feb. 23, 1974
Burial:
Montefiore Cemetery
Springfield Gardens
Queens County
New York, USA

http://tiny.cc/9zeb9x

Thanks detective

My mum has just visited and is very pleased to know about her previosly unknown cousin Matilda Fellman + joins me in thanking you all for all your help.



Floriculturist is an interesting possibility

It would be nice if we could find a photo EDIT of Matilda FELLMAN
for family resemblance

The Ratners are an interesting Family but a diversion for me as I'm supposed to be tracing my nana's blood line .

Sending photos of Janet Ratner, David & Augusta Ratner & Eleanor Ratner Stamm
Janet's is a 1948 year book at Syrcacuse Uni. The others are from a tree on Ancestry.

Thanks so much Det. I've edited my post so it's clear that its Matilda Fellman 's photo I'm looking for

I don't know if Matilda knew any of her paternal cousins ;
Her father Benjamen was a crucial link in me sorting out which were the correct Fellmans coming over from England in the early 1900's


sister Bessie Fellman aged 20 in oct 1904

brother David aged 24 dec 1904

and his father Samuel step mother + half siblings In 1905

All gave Bern/Barnet/barius Fellman + the 478 myrtle av address as NY destination

My sister Alisoun has very long thread about the search for nana 's birth parents and another about the naturalization of our Russian great grandfather

I have a thread about the Fellman's who came over on the boats ;

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1345669?page=1




.

Your & Allisoun's research lines are so extensive, TBH I've lost the plot!

Has further research already been made on Matilda (Tilly) Fellman c1916, or is she a new target? Edit - having scanned the first couple of posts on the linked thread, you've discovered she died unwed.

Possible the best course of action would be to contact all relevant tree owners on Ancestry or elsewhere to see if they have one tucked away. You can take out a 14 day trial on Ancestry. Just remember to phone to cancel a few days before the time is up. If you don't, they'll charge your CC/DC.

I don't think that Tilly was connected

We have traced 8 of G-Jacob Fellman's 11 Russian -Latvian born siblings
2 died in Russia
1 in Scotland
5 in USA

George died in Wales

The missing 3 are one elder sibling b around 1869

+ 2 others born between 1873 and 1879 the years missing from Jacobstadt records but as we dont know their names unlikely to find them .without a few more lucky coincidences .

I've followed 2 half sisters from birth in Latvia +manchester to USA marriages + Deaths

lost trace of manchester born Gertrude Fellman after 1910 aged 15 due to disrepancies in name + age
and I'm not sure if her birth name was Goldie or Taube
in Manchester school she was Golda on the ship Gerty who knows what her 1st name was in later life + if she married

should I put a summary of findings so far at the top my threads on naturalisation ?

Iif you're using that as your 'master' it would be quite a good idea. Remember to date the additional bits & link with the relevant URL.

whats a master = whats a URL ?

I sometimes start off on a general subject then it overlaps into research into the same family . should it be on Find ancestors page or Geanealogy chat

An URL is a web address - they're in green below

All these graves have very similar plot #s

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=96181155
Sadie Ratner
Birth: unknown
Death: Jan. 14, 1965
Inscription:
Aged 76 Years
Burial:
Mount Carmel Cemetery
Glendale
Queens County
New York, USA
Plot: 2-10-13-573-3
Find A Grave Memorial# 96181155

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=96181333
Morris Ratner
Birth: Jul. 20, 1882
Death: Sep. 23, 1974
Note: Neshwesser Y M #2
Burial:
Mount Carmel Cemetery
Glendale
Queens County
New York, USA
Plot: 2-10-13-573-6
Find A Grave Memorial# 96181333

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=96181564
Augusta Ratner
Birth: Feb. 23, 1889
Death: Mar. 7, 1992
Burial:
Mount Carmel Cemetery
Glendale
Queens County
New York, USA
Plot: 2-10-13-573-7
Find A Grave Memorial# 96181564

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=96180458
David Ratner
Death: Dec. 13, 1934
Note: Neshwesser Y M #2
Burial:
Mount Carmel Cemetery
Glendale
Queens County
New York, USA
Plot: 2-10-13-573-4
Find A Grave Memorial# 96180458

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=96165017
Eleanor Stamm
Birth: unknown [image says 13/1/1918]
Death: May 22, 2003
Burial:
Mount Carmel Cemetery
Glendale
Queens County
New York, USA
Plot: 2-10-13-573-8
Find A Grave Memorial# 96165017


http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=95991385
Lena Fellman
Birth: unknown
Death: Dec. 28, 1966
Burial:
Mount Carmel Cemetery
Glendale
Queens County
New York, USA
Find A Grave Memorial# 95991385

Using http://www.mountcarmelcemetery.com/search.asp
Search Results - Showing all 1 matches.
Last Name, First Name Location Society Date of Death
FELLMAN, LENA 2-10-13-573-2 12/28/1966

Master - in this instance where you keep information or links all in one place. Particularly important on GR as 'My Threads' is playing up. That makes it difficult to find all of the threads you've stared or added to.

An URL is a web address, linking to another site or page. A more knowledgeable deffinition is " URL is an acronym for Uniform Resource Locator and is a reference (an address) to a resource on the Internet."
You added one earlier. Clicking on it opens up the link in a new tab.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1345669?page=1

Most of the time they appear in blue type.
If you were to suggest some one looks on www.freebmd.org.uk they'd have to copy or type that into the browser bar.
On the other hand the URL http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ taks them straight there,