Genealogy Chat

WILFRED OXLEY,my grandfather was born on 23rd September 1874

His parents were THOMAS OXLEY & ADA OXLEY(fomerly Carter) shown on birth certificate & resident at 37 Hillside, Chesterfield
1881 Census indicates family now living at 42 Newland Dale, Chesterfield but appear to have changed family name to CARTER (Ada's maiden name), the famiily being :-
Thomas Carter, Head (married) aged 34
Ada Carter, Wife (married) aged 28
Wilfred Carter Son aged 6
Sarah Carter Dau. aged 1

1892 James Carter was born
1885 Ada Carter died
1887 Thomas Carter married Mary Ann Hewitt on 28th February 1887 but using his
his real surname of Oxley, the marriage certificate confirming this. At this tiime
they were living at Higher Albert Street, Chesterfield
1888 Fanny Victoria Carter was born

1891 Census shows family now at 67 Sheffield Road, Chesterfield, the family being
Thomas Carter, Head aged 39
Mary Ann Carter, Wife aged 28
Wilfred Carter, son aged 16
Sarah Carter, dau., aged 11
james A Carter, son aged 9
Frederick Hewitt, step son aged 5
Fanny V Carter, aged 2

1895 Mary Ann Carter died
1899 Thomas Carter/Oxley died
1900 WILFRED OXLEY (now with his birth surname confirmed) married Sarah
Minnie Snell on April 2nd 1900

1901 Census indicates Wilfred & Sarah living at 15 Porter Street, Staveley
Nr. Chesterfield the family being :-
Wilfred Oxley,Head, aged 26
Sarah Minnie Oxley, wife aged 23
Minnie Oxley, dau., aged 0

The mystery is "Why did Thomas change family name from OXLEY (his birth name} to CARTER (his wife's maiden name) ?) & the big question is " Were they ever married ?" I cannot find any evidence of this in marriage records.

If they didn't marry, she wasn't his wife.

He may have changed to her name for monetary gain

BTW, I think you've got the wrong year for the birth of James Carter

How did Thomas describe himself when he married Hewitt? Was he supposedly a widower?

Name: Wilfred Oxley
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1874
Registration District: Chesterfield
County: Derbyshire
Event Place: Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England
Volume: 7B
Page: 609
Line Number: 305

Name: Wilfred Oxley
Event Type: Marriage
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year: 1900
Registration District: Chesterfield
County: Derbyshire
Event Place: Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England
Volume: 7B
Page: 1457
Line Number: 349

strange?


Name: Sarah Minnie Snell
Event Type: Marriage
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year: 1900
Registration District: Chesterfield
County: Derbyshire
Event Place: Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England
Volume: 7B
Page: 1437
Line Number: 64


Sarah Minnie Snell probably married one of the following people

Name: Alfred Harvey
Name: William Thurlby

Name: Thomas Oxley
Birth Date: 1851
Age: 36
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Hewitt
Spouse's Birth Date: 1864
Spouse's Age: 23
Event Date: 28 Feb 1887
Event Place: Parish Of Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England
Father's Name: Thomas Oxley
Spouse's Father's Name: William Buxton
Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse's Marital Status: Widowed

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01052-5 , System Origin: England-EASy , GS Film number: 1752146 , Reference ID: it 4 p 133

I don't know where the info above was found

Using freebmd...........


Marriages Jun 1900 (>99%)

Oxley Wilfred Chesterfield 7b 1457
Snell Sarah Minnie Chesterfield 7b 1457

everything I posted from www.familysearch.org

re the Sarah Minnie Snell error:
note the page number Page: 1437 which should be 1457 ... the correct marriage details are at familysearch here:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNZ1-YFT


the family in 1881

Thomas Carter, Head 34 born Barnsley Yorkshire, iron fitter? and ?
Ada Carter, Wife 28 born Nottingham Notts
Wilfred Carter Son 6 born Chesterfield Derbyshire
Sarah Carter Dau. 1 born " "

there is a significant gap between Wilfred and Sarah ... one possibility is that Thomas was in the military (and possibly Wilfred was born after he left for a posting abroad)

if he then deserted from the military, which was not uncommon, he might have changed his name, also not uncommon

one possibility is India ... the Afghan war started in 1878 and was a source of desertions ...


Ada in 1871 for info

Name: Ada Carter
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Wakefield
Ecclesiastical parish: St MaryTown: Wakefield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Registration district: Wakefield


and actually, it looks like Thomas was already married in 1871

Name: Thomas Oxley
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Oxley
Gender: Male
Where born: Barnsley, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Leeds
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: EnglandRegistration district: Leeds

Thomas Oxley 25 labourer at foundry
Mary Ann Oxley 21 born Wedgbury, Staffordshire
Thomas Oxley 2
Joseph Oxley 5 Months

although his birth details still don't match with anything in the index

so that would explain not marrying and also not using his own name perhaps


looks like the other family in 1881

Name: Thomas Oxley
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relationship to Head: Son
Mother: Mary A. Oxley
Gender: Male
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Street address: 36 Marlborough St
Registration district: Leeds

Mary A. Oxley 33 head, married, born Golden Hill, Staffordshire
Thomas Oxley 12
Herbert Oxley 8 born Leeds


Births Jun 1873
Oxley Herbert Leeds 9b 527

Births Dec 1874
Oxley Wilfred Chesterfield 7b 609


since Wilfred's birth cert names Thomas as father, either there was an estrangement between the two births, or Herbert was Mary Ann's child after she separated from Wilfred


(edit ... deleted obviously incorrect 1857 marriage!)


in any case it looks like you have a whole new set of family members :-)


someone here has

Thomas Oxley 1869 Leeds West Yorkshire

in their family tree (that is, the child of the first marriage)

and that person and another also have

Thomas Oxley 1845 Barnsley South Yorkshire


Births Dec 1845
Oxley Thomas Ecclesfield 22 139

seems to be your Thomas

Hello Albert and welcome to the Community boards.




(I'll let Albert know how to find his replies) :-)

1891 census has Sarah Jane Watson born @ 1839 Barnsley.

Sarah Jane Oxley @ 1837 married 25/6/1866 to George Watson in Burley near Leeds.her dad was Thomas Oxley a brick maker.
Witnessed by Thomas and Mary Ann Oxley.

Your Thomas was the brother of Sarah Jane Oxley, so this more or less confirms your Thomas was the one who married in Leeds.Maybe that is the reason for the name change.

Maryb.

Yup, that was my suggestion for the name change - avoiding fallout from the first marriage if he had deserted that family!


1841

Name: Sarah Oxley
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Gender: Female
Where born: Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Barnsley
Hundred: Staincross
County/Island: Yorkshire
View imageRegistration district: Ecclesfield

Thomas Oxley 40 ag lab
Sarah Oxley 30
William Oxley 13
Henry Oxley 12
James Oxley 10
Ann Oxley 6
Sarah Oxley 4
Ellen Oxley 2
Margaret Oxley 10week


1851 in Worsbrough

Sarah Oxley 43
Sarah Jane Oxley 12
Ellen Oxley 9
Margaret Oxley 7
Thos Oxley 5
Joseph Moss 23

message from poster


Thank you for confirming all the details listed relating to the all that has happened within the Oxley/ Carter household up to and including the marriage of Wilfred Oxley and Sarah Minnie Snell.

My concern is now related to the possibility that Thomas Oxley and Ada
Carter were never married and I am anxious to know more about Thomas Oxley's ancestors. I have worked hard trying to establish which family he belongs to. There are so many families named Oxley within the Barnsley area having both father & son named Thomas who fit within the age ranges dictated by the Census returns.
Am I possibly missing the point somewhere and are there other directions in which I should be going?
Any help would be much appreciated!

Albert, would you please reply in the thread here?

type your message in the box at the bottom where it says 'Add your reply' ... the box is next to the word 'Post'

(I am realizing that people with vision problems like mine may find it difficult even to see this reply box!)


perhaps you read the information I posted above?


I think there is little question about which family your Thomas belongs to


1841 in Barnsley

Thomas Oxley 40 ag lab
Sarah Oxley 30
William Oxley 13
Henry Oxley 12
James Oxley 10
Ann Oxley 6
Sarah Oxley 4
Ellen Oxley 2
Margaret Oxley 10week


1851 in Worsbrough

Sarah Oxley 43
>> Sarah Jane Oxley 12
Ellen Oxley 9
Margaret Oxley 7
>> Thos Oxley 5 >> your Thomas
Joseph Moss 23


Thomas was already married when he partnered with Ada Carter, which explains the fact that there is no marriage to Ada Carter, and probably explains his adopting her surname.

I have deleted the possible marriage I posted earlier, because I seem to have lost my mind and thought that someone born in 1845 married in 1857. If Thomas *was* married to his first wife, I do not see a perfect choice for the marriage ... Mary Ann would have been underage so perhaps they did not marry


1871 in Leeds with first wife Mary Ann

Thomas Oxley 25 born Barnsley, labourer at foundry
Mary Ann Oxley 21 born Wedgbury, Staffordshire
Thomas Oxley 2
Joseph Oxley 5 Months


then in 1881, Thomas is with his new family with Ada

Thomas Carter, Head 34 born Barnsley Yorkshire, iron fitter? and ?
Ada Carter, Wife 28 born Nottingham Notts
Wilfred Carter Son 6 born Chesterfield Derbyshire
Sarah Carter Dau. 1 born " "


and this is his first wife (or not) Mary Ann in 1881 in Leeds

Mary A. Oxley 33 head, married, born Golden Hill, Staffordshire
Thomas Oxley 12
Herbert Oxley 8 born Leeds

and in 1891 in Leeds

Mary A Oxley 42, born Leeds (as a ditto), head, scribbler filler, widowed
Tom Oxley 22, born Leeds, iron turner, single
- son Herbert is married and someone has corrected his name from Oxfey to Oxley at Ancestry but without giving an explanation, and could be contacted there


without a marriage certificate in either case to show a father's name, certainty is difficult

but the Thomas
- in 1851 and 1861 with parents Thomas and Sarah and sister Sarah Jane
- in 1871 with wife Mary Ann
matches your Thomas in 1881 too perfectly


If you get the birth certificate for the first child with Mary Ann

Births Jun 1869
Oxley Thomas Leeds 9b 465

it may give information that will be useful for making the connection


and get this birth certificate for your Thomas

Births Dec 1845
Oxley Thomas Ecclesfield 22 139


and, as I said, contact people who have these people in their trees at this website

Thomas Oxley 1869 Leeds West Yorkshire
Thomas Oxley 1845 Barnsley South Yorkshire


Does that help to follow it now?

JoonieC posted ...............


and in 1891 in Leeds

Mary A Oxley 42, born Leeds (as a ditto), head, scribbler filler, widowed
Tom Oxley 22, born Leeds, iron turner, single
- son Herbert is married and someone has corrected his name from Oxfey to Oxley at Ancestry but without giving an explanation, and could be contacted there

-------


looking at the image of the 1891 Census on ancestry .................. it does indeed look as if the surname is Oxfey but that it was then corrected to OxLey ................


and this is the explanation given ..............


Herbert Oxley rather than Herbert Oxfey

Correction due to an error in transcription.

Submitted by: judithstrachan1 on 14/12/2013




This is further confirmed by looking for Herbert's marriage to an Eva .............

Marriages Mar 1891 (>99%)

Oxley Herbert Leeds 9b 780
Senior Eva Leeds 9b 780




By 1901, Herbert and Eva had 2 children ............

Name Age
Herbert Oxley 28
Eva Oxley 27
Mary Ann Oxley 8
Thomas William 4

yes that's what I said Sylvia :-D

'someone has corrected his name from Oxfey to Oxley at Ancestry but without giving an explanation, and could be contacted there'

... Oxfey is not a name :-)

(I don't like to post people's usernames here especially when they seem to be their real names, just another instance of talking about somebody who isn't present)

the person who has

Thomas Oxley 1845 Barnsley South Yorkshire

in their tree here at Genes Reunited also has

Herbert Oxley 1872 Holbeck, Leeds


I have messaged Albert asking him to return, and am rather hoping the thread doesn't get longer before he does, so he can find and follow the outline I have given :-)

ah


I misunderstood .......... you said "without an explanation"

but the explanation is there ............"mistranscription" :-)

(I meant a real explanation! i.e. whether the person who made the correction is actually related to the household. :-) )

Albert ... you are reading the messages here, so you have got to reply here and not by private message

(you replied to the private message I sent you, but that message was just to ask you to come back here and reply here)

For info in reply to the questions in your private message

- this entire 'conversation' is a 'thread' - it consists of one 'post' (message) after another, forming a thread

- each message in the thread is a 'post'

you add your own post (message) here by tying in the box at the bottom of the thread where it says in big letters
>>> Add your reply
and then, beside the box
>>> Post

and then you click the box where it says
>>> Add to My Watched Threads
(that means you will get an email when someone adds a post)

and then you click the button that says
>>> Submit


now I'll get to what you said in your private message to me

private message sent by Albert

______________________________________________

I have your message dated 8 Feb 2015 ...

Census 1841 in Barnsley
Thomas Oxley 40 ag lab
Sarah Oxley30
and their 7 children especially Sarah(Jane?)

Census 1851 in Worsbrough
Sarah Oxley 43 (Widow) - I believe Thomas died in 3 - 1841
Sarah Jane Oxley 12
Ellen Oxley 9
Margaret Oxley 7
Thomas Oxley 5 (my Thomas)
Joseph Moss 23 (Lodger)

Census 1861 in Barnsley
Sarah Oxley 50
Sarah Jane Oxley 23
Margaret Oxley 20
Thomas Oxley 15 (my Thomas)
Sarah Ann 8 mnth

Census 1881 in Chesterfield
Thomas Carter 34 (my Thomas - believe it or not)
Ada Carter 28 (died 1885)
Wilfred Carter 6 (my grandfather - Birth certificate 77.11.3 names father
as Thomas Oxley)
Sarah Carter 1

Census 1891 in Chesterfield
Thomas Carter 39
Mary Ann Carter 28 (nee Hewitt - Thomas's 2nd wife)
Wilfred Carter 16
Sarah Carter 11
James A Carter 9
Frederick Hewitt 5 (Step son)
Fanny v Carter 2
Sarah Jane Watson 52 (Visitor) See following Note>>>>>>>>>

______________________________________________


Yes, Albert, but ...

you have completely skipped over the information I posted about Thomas in 1871 in Leeds with his wife Mary Ann and children Thomas and Joseph!

and then Mary Ann with children Thomas and Herbert in Leeds
in 1881 (where she says she is married)
and in 1891 (where she says she is widowed)

My idea is that Thomas's first wife (or partner) was Mary Ann, and he left that family ... or Mary Ann left him ... and then he partnered with Ada (and then, when she died, with a new Mary Ann)

if he was married to the first Mary Ann (1871 census) that would be a reason why he did not marry Ada, and possibly why he took her surname, to conceal his identity / his status

______________________________________________


Albert added this note:


Am I to understand that Sarah Jane Oxley born in Barnsley1839 , married George Watson in Burley near Leeds in 1866, the marriage being witnessed by Thomas and Mary Ann Oxley. A copy of the marriage certificate would confirm this. In turn this would go a long way in confirming that my Thomas was the brother of Sarah Jane Oxley.

Can we be sure that there is now a link between the aforementioned families an therefore another branch to the family tree?. I've got a feeling that some further research may be necessary.

Finally I would just like to thank all my new GR advisors and can i say friends for all their valuable help during the last ten days(it feels more like ten weeks) - maybe further help my be required and I hope forthcoming.

Best regards and Au Revoir

Albert (Bert)

______________________________________________


as I understand it, Thomas witnessed Sarah Jane's marriage ... Mary posted this and maybe she would say where it comes from ...

Sarah Jane Oxley @ 1837 married 25/6/1866 to George Watson in Burley near Leeds.her dad was Thomas Oxley a brick maker.
Witnessed by Thomas and Mary Ann Oxley.


you note that in the early censuses I posted for your Thomas, there is a sister Sarah Jane, which matches that information

BTW (haha, now you know what that means!) ...

>>> note that the other witness is Mary Ann Oxley

this matches with what I found ... Thomas's first marriage where he is in Leeds with wife Mary Ann in 1871

so it looks like he and his first wife witnessed his sister Sarah Jane's marriage


what I wish we could find is a marriage for Thomas to Mary Ann (the first) before about 1866 ... but she was very young so perhaps they did not marry

but if you got the birth certificate for one of his children (not Herbert to start with because he might not be Thomas's son)

Births Jun 1869
Oxley Thomas Leeds 9b 465

it should give you her name and give you information about Thomas that could help confirm this was your Thomas


does that help? :-)


and also ... look back at the information I posted about people who have Oxleys in their family tries who are from what seems to be Thomas's first family, and use the Search Trees function to try to contact them

I know you are having trouble working out how the site works, but you have got to do it eventually!


To search trees, click on
>>> Search
up at the top (with the little magnifying glass beside it)
and then click on
>>> Search All Member Trees


To find this thread, click on Community up at the top and then click on
>>> My Threads


and when you finish reading this page, click at the bottom of the messages on
>>> 2
to read the second page!

?????????????????


could this be the first marriage???????????



The Parish is shown as "Parish of Burley nr Leeds"


West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935

Name: Thomas Oxley
Birth Year: abt 1845
Age: 21
Marriage or Bann Date: 23 Dec 1866
Parish: Burley, St Matthias
Father's name: Thomas Oxley
Spouse's Name: Mary Anne Collins
Spouse's Father's Name: William Collins


from image:-

Thomas
Labourer
Bachelor
Address:- Burley
Father Occupation:- Brick-maker

Mary Anne
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- Burley
Father occupation:- Pedler

Witnesses:- George Watson and William Oxley