Genealogy Chat

Thanks Shirley for the information on Goddard's Will!! ;-)

Hi Shirley!

Unfortunately I don't have the death certs of Caroline or Goddard. I could contact Goddards Grandson again and see if he has any certificates. ;-)

Do you have the cert to see who the informant was

Name: Caroline Holding
Birth Date: abt 1893
Date of Registration: Jun 1955
Age at Death: 62
Registration district: Wandsworth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5d
Page: 607

Name: Goddard H Holding
Birth Date: abt 1891
Date of Registration: Mar 1960
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5c
Page: 1355


Just because it came up !


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 about Goddard Henry Holding
Name: Goddard Henry Holding
Probate Date: 28 Mar 1960
Death Date: 14 Jan 1960
Death Place: London, England
Registry: London, England
Of 100 Ferndale Road died 14 .1960 effects £ 161.1s to Ellen Mary Holding widow

So the wedding in 1947 she would be about 14. Possibly too young to have been a witness on the cert. I would think

Yes Charlotte was Caroline's sister, she married Jubal Hawkes in 1912

ER's show Caroline was living at 100 Ferndale Road, Brixton with her husband Goddard from c1945 until her death in 1955 and can't find any mention of Marjorie living with them however, we are not entirely sure when she passed away.

I do know for sure that Marjorie was still alive in 1947 as she was a bridsmaid at her brother William's wedding that year.

Have just gone back through ER's and have found living at 100 Ferndale Road, Brixton with Goddard in 1956 is a Helen, M Sutton.

Sutton was the married name of Goddard's 2nd wife Ellen (nee Goldsmith). Still no deaths of this name which would tie in for the elusive Marjory!! So I guess it's back to the drawing board!!!

Still has the Hawkes ladies and Ellen with him

Name: Goddard H Holding
Year: 1960
County or Borough: Lambeth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Brixton
Street address: 100 Ferndale Road

So if Marjorie was born in 1933 she has to be 21 to vote so this wouldn't be before 1954. But she isn't with Goddard and Caroline on the 1954 plus electoral rolls

Name: Goddard H Holding
Year: 1945
County or Borough: Lambeth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Lambeth
Street address: 100 Ferndale road
With Caroline and William J Holding
Plus Charlotte and Charlotte M and Maud E Hawkes

Name: Goddard Henry Holding
Year: 1937
County or Borough: Southwark
Ward or Division/Constituency: Southwark
Street address: 112 Walworth Road
With Caroline and Goddard S Holding

Seem possible its family

Births Dec 1913
Hawkes Charlotte M Gillis Lambeth 1d 558


Seems its a sister of Caroline

Marriages Dec 1912
Gillis Charlotte Hawkes Lambeth 1d 659
HAWKES Jubal H Gillis Lambeth 1d 659


Their children

Births Dec 1913
Hawkes Charlotte M Gillis Lambeth 1d 558
Births Dec 1916
Hawkes Henry J Gillis Lambeth 1d 460
Births Jun 1920
Hawkes Maud E Gillis Lambeth 1d 584

Same address and people

Name: Goddard H Holding
Year: 1948
County or Borough: Lambeth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Lambeth
Street address: 100 Ferndale road

With Caroline and the Charlotte Hawkes ladies

So wonder who the Hawkes ladies were ???

1946 to 1955 would be the most useful years, I would think

By 1957, he was with his second wife

Name: Goddard H Holding
Year: 1957
County or Borough: Lambeth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Brixton
Street address: 100 Ferndale road

With Ellen M Holding and Charlotte and Charlotte M
Hawkes

So no Marjorie with them in 1957


Edit same address and with Caroline and the Hawkes ladies in 1953

Name: Goddard H Holding
Year: 1953
County or Borough: Lambeth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Lambeth
Street address: 100 Ferndale road

He and Caroline are at this address in 1935

Name: Goddard Henry Holding
Year: 1935
County or Borough: Southwark
Ward or Division/Constituency: Southwark
Street address: 112 Walworth Road

Sorry, I took it to mean that you'd spoken to one of caroline's sons. My mistake.

But, one sure thing is that Marjorie/Marjory/Margery is hardly likely to have been registered as Holding, unless the father actually attended with the mother, or registered the birth himself.

And Gillis simply can't figure in the child's name, as Caroline was not her mother

You could try the ER's for the years immediately prior to Caroline's death. Find out who else was in the house.

her last address will be on her death c ert

So her birth should be reg in the dec qtr of 1933

But it's possible her mum didn't register as Marjory etc and she was given that name when she was taken on by family

Thanks for you replies and apologies for only just returning to this thread .

I have checked for variations of spelling for the name Marjory under the name Gillis and Holding however, nothing fits! I have also checked using the name 'Margaret' as wondered if Marjory is a nickname however, still nothing!

Riochet I probably didn't explain myself very well in my original post. :-(

When I said both sons(of Caroline and Goddard) had passed away and that I had been in touch with one of their sons and they know nothing about Marjory I was referring to Goddard Juniors son (he knew nothing of his Father having a younger half sister).... I hope this makes a bit more sense.

While there is uncertainty as to which year Marjory actually passed away it is believed in was during her 20's, possibly early 30's..... So sometime between c1952 - early 1960's. My notes on my family tree show that my Mum remembers Marjory as being a year younger herself and that her Birthday was on September 1st.

My Mum attended Santley Street Infants School, Brixton, London with Marjorie as well as some of their other cousins.

:-)

The girl could have been born almost anywhere. I don't expect the man 'messed on his own doorstep' as the saying goes.

His wife must have been pretty special.............

It seems strange that the sons knew nothing of this girl, as they would have been teenagers when she was born, and you'd have thought they'd know if a baby suddenly came into their home.

I wonder if the school records would be available, and informative

Which school did they go to together?

Did the girl go to Caroline's funeral?