Genealogy Chat

Trying to find my Gt Grandfather John Dodd Fisher. Using the 1861/1871/1901 Census' there are three different places of birth: Scotland/Northumberland and Carlisle, Cumberland.

He was born abt 1832 and in adult life a coal miner. He married Sarah Patterson in 1858 and his father was William a Minister of the Gospel.

Any advice would be appreciated.

His birth? EDIT Possibly not as this William seems to be a farmer.


Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 about John Fisher
Name: John Fisher
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 3 Jul 1832
Baptism Date: 13 Jul 1832
Baptism Place: Forteviot,Perth,Scotland
Father: William Fisher
Mother: Elizabeth Caw
FHL Film Number: 1040116

This is your Gt Granfather for definite?

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Print household transcription
Household Members
First Name Last Name Relationship Condition Gender Age Year Of Birth Occupation Birth Place
JOHN D FISHER HEAD MARRIED Male 60 1831 COAL MINER Bedlington, NORTHUMBERLAND
Image Transcription
SARAH FISHER WIFE MARRIED Female 53 1838 - NORTHUMBERLAND
Image Transcription
JOHN FISHER SON SINGLE Male 22 1869 COAL MINER NORTHUMBERLAND
Image Transcription
FERGUS FISHER SON SINGLE Male 20 1871 COAL MINER NORTHUMBERLAND
Image Transcription
JAMES FISHER SON SINGLE Male 15 1876 COAL MINER NORTHUMBERLAND

First Name JOHN D
Last Name FISHER
Relationship HEAD
Condition MARRIED
Gender Male
Age 60
Year Of Birth 1831
Occupation COAL MINER
Birth Town -
Birth County NORTHUMBERLAND
Birth Place -
House Name -
Street ERSKINE ROAD
Town SOUTH SHIELDS
Parish WESTOE
City SOUTH SHIELDS

From a tree on Ancestry
John Dodd Fisher
No photos, stories, audio or video have been added yet.
Timeline
6 Sources
Birth
1831
Bedlington, Northumberland, England
1 Source
Residence
1841
Age: 10
Walls End, Northumberland, England
Age: 9
1 Source
Residence
1851
Age: 20
Brinkburn Low Ward, Northumberland, England
Age: 22; Relation to Head of House: Servant
1 Source
Marriage
1858
17 May
Age: 27
Tynemouth, Northumberland, England
1 Source
Residence
1861
Age: 30
Whitworth, Durham, England
Age: 30; Relation to Head of House: Head
1 Source
Residence
1871
Age: 40
Tudhoe, Durham, England
Age: 39; Relation to Head of House: Head
1 Source
Residence
1891
Age: 60
Westoe, Durham, England
Age: 60; Relation to Head of House: Head
1 Source
Residence
1901
Age: 70
Murton, Northumberland, England
Age: 70; Relation to Head of House: Head

Just reposting what you have on ancestry.

Looking for information on John Fisher born about 1832, his father was William Fisher. John married a Sarah Patterson on 17 May 1858, North Shields.

On the marriage certificate John is described as a pitman while his father William, a Minister of the Gospel. The two witnesses are Thomas Smart Surtees and Thomas Arkley.

A witness at the marriage was Thomas Arkley whose mother was a Hannah Dodds.

1861 - Scotland - Living in Whitworth NBL
1871 - NBL - Living in Tudhoe
1881 - Sarah described as a widow
1891 - NBL - Living in Westoe
1901 - Carlisle - Living in Murton
Sarah is always described as being born in Seghill.

Related thread:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1327999

"Sarah is always described as being born in Seghill."

Except 1891, when the whole family are listed on the image as born in Bedlington.

Eureka??


1841 England Census about John Dodd
Name: John Dodd
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland

Civil Parish: Chollerton
Hundred: Tindale (North East Division)
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

View image

Registration district: Hexham
Sub-registration district: Cholleston
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 838
Book: 13
Folio: 6
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Catharine Fisher 56 - Ag Lab, not born in county
John Dodd 10

However, there's no record of a John Dodd born in Scotland around the right time, and although there are a few John Fishers with mother's name Catherine, none of the fathers is William.

Also no marriage between a Dodd and a Fisher - or variation of spelling.
(Only a Margaret Dods and a Thomas Fisher in 1827, so not relevant.)

Hannah Dodd, mother of Thomas Arkley, the marriage witness:


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 about Hannah Dodd
Name: Hannah Dodd
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 23 May 1829
Marriage Place: Shotley,Northumberland,England
Spouse: Thomas Arkley
FHL Film Number: 252572, 95027

More detailed transcript for the Dodd/Arkley marriage

County Northumberland
Place Shotley
Church St Andrew & St John Bt
RegisterNumber 66
MarriageDate 23 May 1829
GroomForename Thomas
GroomSurname ARKLEY
GroomAge -
GroomParish Bywell St Peter
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation -
BrideForename Hannah
BrideSurname DODD
BrideAge -
BrideParish This Parish
WitnessOneForename William
WitnessOneSurname ARKLEY
WitnessTwoForename Mary
WitnessTwoSurname DODD
Notes She signs X
FileNumber 28923

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

Maybe Hannah and her witness Mary??:

Hannah Dodd
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 13 December 1807 Hexham, Northumberland, England
residence: Hexham, Northumberland, England
father: Stephen Dodd


Mary Dodd
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth: 16 June 1804
christening: 11 November 1804 HEXHAM,NORTHUMBERLAND,ENGLAND
father: Stephen Dodd


Also:

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about Jane Dodd
Name: Jane Dodd
Gender: Female
Birth Date: May 1802
Baptism Date: 11 Nov 1804
Baptism Place: Hexham,Northumberland,England
Father: Stephen Dodd
FHL Film Number: 94998

I wonder - just a long shot, following on the 1841 with Catharine Fisher and John Dodd. On the 1841 image, Catharine's age has been overwritten, and could well be 50, rather than 56.


1851 England Census about John Fisher
Name: John Fisher
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Catharine Fisher
Gender: Male
Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England

Civil Parish: Wolsingham
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Registration district: Weardale
Sub-registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 1c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 22
Piece: 2388
Folio: 402
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Catharine Fisher 60 - widow
John Fisher 20 - iron miner
Catharine Fisher 16

He would then be in the right area for meeting and marrying Sarah in North Shields in 1858.

Can these be your William Fisher and Catharine??

"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"
Name: Mary Fisher
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 05 Apr 1813
Christening Place: ANNETWELL CHAPEL-INDEPENDENT,CARLISLE,CUMBERLAND,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 29 Mar 1813
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Wm. Fisher
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Cathrine Dodd
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C06434-1
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 0590675 (RG4 685)

Well, maybe not - William's a print cutter, not a minister of religion. Perhaps he changed later, or maybe John made it up to impress Sarah.

Catharine & William's marriage:


William Fisher, "England Marriages, 1538–1973 "
Name: William Fisher
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Catharine Dodd
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 01 Jul 1811
Event Place: Saint Mary,Carlisle,Cumberland,England
Father's Name:
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name:
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00486-2
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 252813, 252814, 252815, 252816

Maybe Williams death?? After daughter Catharine's birth in 1835, but before 1841 census:


England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about William Fisher
Name: William Fisher
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1837
Registration district: Carlisle
Inferred County: Cumberland
Volume: 25
Page: 38

Sounds like you've got something there ArgyllGran.

My, you are like a dog with a bone, never giving up. It certainly seems very plausable. The problem is finding definitive proof. :-D :-D :-D

There was also a daughter Catherine 16 in 1851, not seeing her in 1841.

I also wonder why John is Dodd and not Fisher in 1841 when his parents were married in 1811? Perhaps the enumerator just didn't add his surname. :-S

??? This Catherine is with this family but is seperate from them. She is a F S. This is the same area as Catherine Fisher and John Dodd.

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Print household transcription
Household Members
First Name Last Name Gender Age Year Of Birth Birth Place
JAMES DODD Male 25 1816 NORTHUMBERLAND
Image Transcription
MARGRET DODD Female 20 1821 NORTHUMBERLAND
Image Transcription
BARBERY DODD Female 2 1839 NORTHUMBERLAND
Image Transcription
CATHERINE DODD Female 1 1840 NORTHUMBERLAND
Image Transcription
JANE DODD Female 0 1841 NORTHUMBERLAND
Image Transcription
>>CATHERINE DODD Female 7 1834 f s NORTHUMBERLAND

First Name CATHERINE
Last Name DODD
Gender Female
Age 7
Year Of Birth 1834
Occupation -
House Number -
House Name -
Street GREEN HAUGH
Parish SIMONBURN
City -
Town SIMONBURN
Registration District THE HEXHAM UNION
County Northumberland
Country ENGLAND
Birth County NORTHUMBERLAND
Archive Reference HO107
Schedule 872
Piece Number 842
Folio 15
Page 3


Ancestry version.


1841 England Census about Catherine Dodd
Name: Catherine Dodd
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Gender: Female
Where born: Northumberland, England

Civil Parish: Simonburn
Hundred: Tindale (North West Division)
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

View image

Registration district: Hexham
Sub-registration district: Chollerton
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 842
Book: 21
Folio: 15
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Catherine Dodd 7

Back to the drawing board!
PM received from Ann:

William Fisher is alive in 1858 on the Marriage Certificate of John Fisher and Sarah Patterson stating he is a Minister of the Gospel, so don't think Catherine is the right wife for William.

Thomas Arkley who married Hannah Dodds 23 May 1829, Shotley was born in Broomley.

In the Census for 1841 for Broomley, St Peters Bywell there is a William Fisher described as a Dissenting Minister. Also very familiar names of Arkley/Surtees/and Smart at Broomley. Never progressed any further with William Fisher.

Although I could not enter the Arkleys into my Family Tree I did trace the family from the 1841 Census to 1891. Also found them in a Monumental Inscription of Bywell St Peter.

Regards

And another:

The christening date for Hannah Dodds appears interesting I have a date of birth around 1806 at Hollon? Never found anything about Mary so many thanks for that.

Regards