Genealogy Chat

Can anyone help please? A friend's husband has suffered years of depression mainly because he doesn't know anything about his origins,apart from his father's name---Joseph Hearn Grinham and that Joseph had a brother Arthur( don't know if he was older or younger). He has a copy of a certificate of birth for Joseph, which states that Joseph Hearn-Grinham,boy, was born on 8th October 1912, Registration District Willesden, Sub-district Willesden. It's an official looking copy made in 1960 stating that " I,Eric Tower Shrimpton, Superintendent Registrar for the Registration District of Willesden do hereby certify that the above particulars have been compiled from an entry in a register in my custody." However, I can't see any record in the birth indexes which would enable me to get a copy of a full birth certificate which should let him know his mother's name and there don't appear to be any ledger and page numbers on the copy apart from 207/161at the bottom and YG515185 at the top. Both Joseph and Arthur were brought up as orphans by the London County Council board of Guardians. The only family hints about their backgrounds were that their mother was killed in a zeppelin raid in North London in WW1 and their father was in the Royal Flying Corps and also killed in WW1---but this may well be wishful thinking.
Any suggestions about where I can look next would be most welcome. I'm stumped.
Alison

What about his one:

Name: Joseph H Grinham
Mother's Maiden Name: Beck
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1912
Registration district: Willesden
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 509

Possible marriage?

You would need the birth certificate to confirm whether Edward Ernest is Joseph's father.


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Marriages Mar 1907 (>99%)
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BECK Eliza Fanny Marylebone 1a 1036
Grinham Edward Ernest Marylebone 1a 1036

1911 census:

Name: Eliza Fanny Grinham
Age in 1911: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation to Head: Housekeeper
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Marylebone, London, England
Civil parish: Willesden
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address: 32 Fortune Gate Rd, Harlesden, Willesden, London N W
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 4
Estimated Marriage Year: 1907
Registration district: Willesden
Registration District Number: 129
Sub-registration district: Willesden
ED, institution, or vessel: 53
Household schedule number: 210
Piece: 7033
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur Hiram Hearn 27
Eliza Fanny Grinham 23
Isabel May Fanny Grinham 3
Edith Lena Grinham 2
Arthur Hearn Grinham 2 1/2 M

Possible death of this Eliza Fanny Grinham:

Name: Eliza Fanny Grinham
Birth Date: 14 Jun 1887
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1972
Age at Death: 85
Registration district: Merton
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5d
Page: 970

More on that 1907 marriage:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Edward Ernest Grinham, bachelor - a trunk repairer. 35 Linhope Street.
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Spouse Name: Eliza Fanny Beck, spinster of 23 Linhope Street
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 31 Mar 1907
Parish: Lisson Grove
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: David Grinham (deceased) - marble mason
Spouse Father Name: Joseph Beck - house decorator
Register Type: Parish Register

Witnesses: Joseph Henry Beck and Edith Mary Beck.

Deaths Mar 1956 ?

Grinham Edward E 69 Pancras 5d 556

Roy

On the 1911 census posted by Adeline all the children are listed as daughter or son to Head Arthur Hiram Hearn both him and Eliza Fanny Grinham are listed as married but that does not mean they are married to each other (listed as Housekeeper to head) but it's strange that the last child has Arthur as a forename and Hearn as a middle name

The record shows married 4 years and 3 children born and 3 still living but only on the line for Eliza Fanny Grinham and nothing listed for dad Arthur

I would assume that Arthur Hearn Grinham is the son of Arthur Hiram Hearn

Roy

Thanks for all the input---I'm feeling really confused now! The conjunction of the names Hearn and Grinham on the 1911 census are really interesting. It says "married" by both Arthur Heard and Eliza Fanny Grinham with the 4years by Eliza's name, but could they be married to other people? Then why has the baby been given the names Arthur and Hearn? And if this the right Arthur, brother of Joseph, why were the two brothers in council care as orphans if Eliza Fanny was still alive in 1972? I've got to find out if Arthur was the older brother then start getting certificates.It would be wonderful if any of the leads turn out to be relevant, so many thanks everyone. Signing off now to feed hungry grandkids.
Alison

Have you seen this?

http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.hearne/56/mb.ashx

Rose

It looks to be as though Edward and Eliza separated after the first 2 children and she took up with Arthur Hiram Hearn. They had 2 children and then they also separated.

Births Sep 1907
GRINHAM Isabel May F Marylebone 1a 483

Births Mar 1909
Grinham Edith Lena Marylebone 1a 511

These 2 appear in trees on this site.

Rose

Arthur HIram's service records are on Ancestry.

Rose

According to a tree on Ancestry, Arthur Hiram went on to marry Hilda Morley and Ada Fordham.

Rose

His service records tell an interesting tale:

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Name: Arthur Hiram Hearn
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Age at enlistment: 18
Birth Parish: Plumstead
Birth County: Kent
Document Year: 1900
Regimental Number: 5997
Regiment Name: The Burffs
Number of images: 40

Will be back when I've finished scribbling ....

...... the service records are quite badly damaged in places (charred, waterdamaged and faded) with bits missing.

From what I can make out he enlisted 3 July 1900 and at that time was single. There are some indecipherable parts about conduct and where he served, but in 1916 it gets really interesting - there is an internal memo asking for the whereabouts of his children and what Industrial School they are in. I can just make out a section where it says to get the necessary info they would need to write to his former dependent E.J. Grinham or Hearn at 23 Linhope Street, Dorset Square, London.

A second memo in 14 July 1916 states "Please note no further issue of Separation Allowance is to be made to Mrs Grinham or Hearn (wife of 7829 Pvte Hearn) in consequence of her immoral conduct. ..... No issue for the children as long as they stay in Industrial School." It goes on to say this is to be communicated to the soldier.

There is also a record of his marriage to Hilda Winifred Morley at xxxxx Register Office London 16 Dec 1916. There are no children listed at all for him.

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
Name: Edward Ernest Grinham
Probate Date: 19 Apr 1956
Death Date: 9 Mar 1956
Death Place: London, England
Registry: London, England

Lived 5 Tankerton House, Tankerton Street, Cromer Street, London. Admin to Kathleen Grinham, widow. Effects £871 17s 4d

I'd say this must be the marriage:

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1941
Grinham Edward E Hanns Finsbury 1b 1026
Hanns Kathleen Grinham Finsbury 1b 1026

Alison, if you're not a member of Ancestry then I'd suggest you or your friend take their one month free trial (you have to give card details so just remember to cancel in time) - you can then print off the service records and piece the story together.

It doesn't say what Eliza Grinham's "immoral conduct" was or why the children were in an Industrial School, but I guess they could be in because she wasn't looking after them.

Births Mar 1911 (>99%)
Grinham Arthur H Willesden 3a 265

Births Dec 1912 (>99%)
Grinham Joseph H Beck Willesden 3a 509

Roy - Re "The record shows married 4 years and 3 children born and 3 still living but only on the line for Eliza Fanny Grinham and nothing listed for dad Arthur"
What would be strange would be to have this info listed for Arthur (in the columns headed "State, for each Married Woman entered on this Schedule, the number of:-") - well, I'ld have thought it strange, except I know by now folk don't read the headers properly. Since the 1911 iimages are free on Ancestry, it's easy to page forward thru them, A couple of h/h's further on, the man does list this info and it gets crossed out.

Mgnv, My mistake, Think I was looking for a reason (and may of got carried away a tad) why the child born to Eliza Fanny Grinham had the name Arthur Hearn and all children listed as the off spring/children of head of house Arthur Hiram Hearn because If their mother is listed as the house keeper then her children should be listed as visitor or boarder apart from Arthur Hearn Grinham if the head was his father

Roy

Hearn is a well established Romany gypsy surname, just a thought.

Lots of avenues to explore here. Also looks like Edward married 3 times:

Marriages Dec 1925
Grinham Edward E Squires Holborn 1b 1206
Squires Mabel M Grisham Holborn 1b 1206

I tracked down the children of Arthur Hiram to his later wives and they both died young before marrying.

Rose