Genealogy Chat

Hi

I'm trying to trace back from my Granddad John J Tierney.
I have found him in the 1911 Cencus living in Oldham Lancashire and is Birthplace as Preston Lancs in 1879, but cannot find him before that.
Got hold of a copy of the marriage certificate when he married my Grandma in 1909 and his Dads name (My G Granddad) is John Tierney deceased.
Only started tracing my tree a few weeks ago and hit a brick wall.
Would love any help you kind people out there can give me.
Thanks
Darren

Well his birth should have been registered but there's nothing showing have you located his death to check his age

I wonder??

Civil Registration event: Birth

Print Close
Name: TIERNEY, John Joseph
Registration district: Liverpool
County: Lancashire
Year of registration: 1877
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 8B
Page no: 18

1911 just for reference:

Name: John Tierney
Age in 1911: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Preston, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Oldham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 6 Brunswick St Oldham
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Mule Spinner
Registration district: Oldham
Registration District Number: 469
Sub-registration district: Oldham Central
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Piece: 24491
Household Members:
Name Age
John Tierney 32
Florence Tierney 21
John Tierney 2
Veronica Tierney 2/12
View image

Shot in the dark. The surname has been transcribed as Tockney but there is no such a surname. Also transcribed as John Josh but actually John Josp (Diminutive of Joseph)

1881:

Name: John Josh. Tockney
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Tockney
Mother's name: Mary Jane Tockney
Gender: Male
Where born: Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Birkenhead
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: 258 & 260 Beckwith St
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub-registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 30a
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3581
Folio: 101
Page Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
John Tockney 32 born Ireland
Mary Jane Tockney 30 Born Ireland
Bridget Tockney 52 born Ireland
Mary Tockney 4
Thomas Tockney 2
John Josh. Tockney 1
Francis Tockney
Annie Barry 18

1891 Living in Oldham???
Name: John J Tierney
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Tierney
Mother's name: Bridget Tierney
Gender: Male
Where born: Oldham, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Oldham
Ecclesiastical parish: Oldham
Town: Oldham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Oldham
Sub-registration district: Oldham Below Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3300
Folio: 124
Page Number: 41
Household Members:
Name Age
John Tierney 45
Bridget Tierney 43
Mary Tierney 21
Michael Tierney 16
Sarah Tierney 15
Patrick Tierney 11
Winefred Tierney 9
John J Tierney 7
Ellen Tierney 5
Bridget Quin 73

1901???
Name: John Tierney
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Tierney
Gender: Male
Where born: Oldham, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Oldham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Oldham
Sub-registration district: Oldham Below Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 186
Piece: 3806
Folio: 163
Page Number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
John Tierney 56
Sarah Tierney 26
Pat Tierney 24
John Tierney 17
Nelly Tierney 15

Shadow,

I am wondering about his birth year (1879) shown in the 1911 census. Have you any evidence that was reasonably accurate. What age was he shown as on the certificate when he married in 1909? When and where did he die and what was his age shown as at that time?

???
Births Mar 1883
TIERNEY John Joseph Oldham 8d 649

I see your grandma died in Oldham in 1942:

Deaths Jun 1942
Tierney Florence E 52 Oldham 8d 901

Might this be you grandfather's death???

Name: John J Tierney
Birth Date: abt 1883
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1944
Age at Death: 61
Registration district: Oldham
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 769

If so had he remarried or might Margaret Tierney be his daughter in Law???

Name: John Joseph Tierney
Probate Date: 15 Mar 1945
Death Date: 31 May 1944
Death Place: Boundary Park Hospital, Oldham
Registry: Manchester, England
Effects: £205
Administration granted to Margaret Tierney (Widow)

is your John the one who married Florence Rose in 1909?

is his age on the marriage cert consistent with the 1911 census?

Hi thanks to you all for having a look for me.
Still trying to work out when he died. The 1911 cencus is the only one that i can say is right. My Mum always said he came from County Cork but he was born in Preston but my G Grandparents could have.
My G GRANDDAD jOHN TIERNEY on the marriage certificate is down as a Marine Store Dealer so they must have lived close to water i think.

Thanks again evryone

Shadow,

Just looking at the birth index it looks like your grand parents had a lot of children (14 between 1909 and 1931?). If that is correct then I am guessing that you probably have a lot of cousins. Have you asked them if they have any more precise details about your grandfather's background?

On the Marriage Cert he is down as being 30 years old. He died in Oldham Lancs. But not sure of is age when he did die.
As far as i know he died before my Grandma as my Mum said she was pased around her older sisters till she got married.

There were 14 children but only 8 survived. Asked a few but it seems there is still not a lot to go on. Got a few more to see yet so might just get a break i am looking for.

Another death possibility then but the age is still out:

Deaths Sep 1941
Tierney John J 68 Oldham 8d 888

Thanks for that. Its the age thats getting me stuck.
Keep thinking about Tockney that you said.
Wounder if they have put it down wrong when they were doing the records.

Just posting those 1881, 1891 & 1901 census with more info for comparison:

1881 (original looks like Tockney, but ...)
TOCKNEY, John Head Married M 32 1849 Provision Dealer Ireland
TOCKNEY, Mary Jane Wife Married F 30 1851 Provision Dealer Wife Ireland
TOCKNEY, Bridget Mother Widow F 52 1829 Housekeeper Ireland
TOCKNEY, Mary Daughter Single F 4 1877 Scholar Birkenhead, Cheshire
TOCKNEY, Thomas Son Single M 2 1879 Birkenhead, Cheshire
TOCKNEY, John Josh Son Single M 1 1880 Birkenhead, Cheshire
TOCKNEY, Francis Son Single M 0 1881 Birkenhead, Cheshire
BARRY, Annie Servant Single F 18 1863 Dom Serv Birkenhead, Cheshire

Piece: 3581 Folio: 101 Page: 34
Registration District: Birkenhead
Civil Parish: Birkenhead

Address: 258 & 260, Beckwith St, Birkenhead County: Cheshire
______________________________________________________________

1891
TIERNEY, John Head Married M 45 1846 Cotton Spinner Ireland
TIERNEY, Bridget Wife Married F 43 1848 Ireland
TIERNEY, Mary Daughter Single F 21 1870 Cotton Spinner Ireland
TIERNEY, Michael Son Single M 11 1880 Packing Case Maker Ireland
TIERNEY, Sarah Daughter F 15 1876 Velvet Weaver Ireland
TIERNEY, Patrick Son M 11 1880 Cotton Spinner Piecer Ireland
TIERNEY, Winefred Daughter F 9 1882 Scholar Oldham, Lancashire
TIERNEY, John J Son M 7 1884 Scholar Oldham, Lancashire
TIERNEY, Ellen Daughter F 5 1886 Scholar Oldham, Lancashire
TWIN, Bridget Mother In Law Widow F 73 1818 Ireland

Piece: 3300 Folio: 124 Page: 41
Registration District: Oldham
Civil Parish: Oldham
Municipal Borough: Oldham

Address: 31, Siddall Street, Oldham County: Lancashire
__________________________________________________________

1901:
TIERNEY, John Head Widower M 56 1845 General Carrier Ireland
TIERNEY, Sarah Daughter Single F 26 1875 Ireland
TIERNEY, Pat Son Single M 24 1877 General Carrier Ireland
TIERNEY, John Son Single M 17 1884 Apprentice Cycle Maker Oldham, Lancashire
TIERNEY, Nelly Daughter SingleF 15 1886 Tailoress Oldham, Lancashire

Piece: 3806 Folio: 163 Page: 29
Registration District: Oldham
Civil Parish: Oldham

Address: 31, Siddall Street, Oldham County: Lancashire
________________________________________________________

I don't think the 1881 & 1891 are the same family, but the 1891 & 1901 are.

None of the occupations seem to fit .....

Darren, who were the witnesses on the 1909 marriage certificate? Sometimes they may give a clue. Also, what was the address given for John J?

One thing to consider is that if his father had been dead for some time then his mother may have remarried and John could have been recorded in previous census under her new married name.

Thanks for that Marie. Not sure when my G Granddad died but he was a Marine Store Dealer Deceased on there Marrage Cert. in 1909.
Could this be a Provision Dealer in 1881 and could it be Birkenhead and not Preston.

Thanks for that

The witnesses were W Mc Guiness and Florence Duvall.
Address was 10 Chapel Street Oldham.
Remarried thats something to think about
Thanks

Can't find anything for that address or witnesses sadly.

I'd rule that 1881 census out too, their name was Tackney:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: John Joseph Tackney
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1879
Registration district: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Cheshire, Merseyside
Volume: 8a
Page: 513

This is the Tackneys in 1891:

TACKNEY, John Head Married M 42 1849 Grocer & Provision Dealer Ireland
TACKNEY, Mary J Wife Married F 37 1854 Ireland
TACKNEY, Mary M Daughter F 14 1877 Scholar Birkenhead, Cheshire
TACKNEY, Thomas Son M 13 1878 Scholar Birkenhead, Cheshire
TACKNEY, John J Son M 11 1880 Scholar Birkenhead, Cheshire
TACKNEY, Francis Son M 10 1881 Scholar Birkenhead, Cheshire
TACKNEY, Arthur P Son M 8 1883 Scholar Birkenhead, Cheshire
TACKNEY, Ellen C Daughter F 2 1889 Birkenhead, Cheshire
TACKNEY, Bridget Mother Widow F 60 1831 Ireland
CLEARY, Elizabeth Servant Single F 27 1864 General Servant Ireland

Piece: 2886 Folio: 33 Page: 17
Registration District: Birkenhead
Civil Parish: Birkenhead
Municipal Borough: Birkenhead

Address: 304&302, Provision Shop & House Joined, Beckwith Street, Birkenhead County: Cheshire

Beckwith Street is right near the docks.

I don't know, but I'm now starting to lean towards Jonesey's theory - still not 100% convinced yet.

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
Name: John Tackney
Probate Date: 23 May 1894
Death Date: 7 May 1894
Death Place: Birkenhead, Merseyside, England
Registry: Cheshire, England

Address is the same as the 1891 census. Left £279 to widow Mary Jane.

Have found Mary Jane as a widow in 1901 & 1911.

Thanks Marie

Why my Granddad put born in Preston only he will know. He is not making it easy for me.

Thanks for your help and to evryone else.