Genealogy Chat

I am new to genes reunited so please any help would be grateful. Have sent for a birth cert. on Phyllis Edwina Williams born in Cardiff Dec 21st 1921. I found the vol. and the page, I was so pleased to have got this far. But GRO have refunded the money as they say this does not exist. Vol 11a page 902.
Is there any other way of finding out Phyllis's parents name. I am trying to help a dear friend. Any help would be grateful. Tina :-(

This one?

Births Sep 1921 (>99%)
Williams Phyllis E Francis Cardiff 11a 902

As long as you spelt the names EXACTLY as given above, wiith no extra information, it ought to have been issued. If you had, it might have been cancelled for some reason which is why they weren't allowed to issue a copy.

What you can tell from the entry, is that her parents were a Mr Williams and a Ms Francis. So you need to look for a Williams/Francis marriage which you can do on freebmd.org.uk

Unfortunatley, there are a number of Williams/Francis marriages.

Using parameters 1915 - 1921, this one is from Cardiff

Marriages Sep 1920 (>99%)

Francis, Gladys to Williams Cardiff 11a 1239
Williams, Oliver to Francis Cardiff 11a 1239

Assuming the marriage took place in Wales, there are a number of other entries for different Reg districts :-(

Do you know if she had any other siblings? Theirs may be easier to find.

I would try ringing the GRO as the entry is definitely there in the index.

They may have just made a mistake or you could possibly have made a mistake on the form you filled in. You have given a birth date of 21st December 1921, but the entry you mention is for the September quarter so can't be for a December birth.

Kath. x

Did she get married? Do you have that certificate? The father, if known, would be named which might help find the parents marriage.

If you got the dob from a death record, mistakes do happen, either because the regestering informant got in a muddle at an emotional time, or the deceased had fibbed all their lives!

The other possibility, it she was indeed born 21 Dec 1921, is that the birth could be shown in the 1922 Jan-Mar quarter. Her parents would have 6 weeks to register it.

Births Mar 1922 (>99%)
Williams Phyllis Davies Swansea 11a 2224
Williams Phyllis Newell Wolstanton 6b 142
Williams Phyllis Islip Conway 11b 759
>>>Williams Phyllis E Griffiths Llanelly 11a 2537 <<<<< ?????
Williams Phyllis H Dine Portsmouth 2b 886
Williams Phyllis M Warren Neath 11a 2140
Williams Phyllis M Roberts Atcham 6a 1121
Williams Phyllis M Haw Bourne 7a 630
Williams Phyllis M Cox Cardiff 11a 737
Williams Phyllis M H Clarke Cardiff 11a 1048a
Williams Phyllis M P Edwards Neath 11a 2104

LLanelly may be too far away from Cardiff.

Only give info found on the GRO index as it appears,

If you add any other info when applying and their are any mistakes in spelling or dates then your application will be rejected

but as detective and Kath pointed out it looks like you sent for the wrong cert anyway? so probably a lucky escape

where did you get the place and dob from?

remember that births are often found in the following quarter, because you had 6 weeks to register a birth, and so some one born in late November can be found in march quarter the following year

Roy

??
Mar 1922
Phyllis E Williams Llanelly Mmn Griffiths
ref 11a 2537-jl

sorry am slow...agree with detective

Lol jl :-)

I'd been down to the village and was pondering all round the shops on this! Just goes to show how obsessive we can get :-D

As its for your friend I would suggest you ask her to reassess her info .

You should be able to trace her parents back from her .

It would seem Phyllis wasnt born in Cardiff or her birth date wasnt Dec 1921 but was born Cardiff

Could this be Phyllis??

Phyllis Edwina Morgan
Birth Date: 10 Dec 1922
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1977
Age at Death: 54
Registration district: Swansea
Inferred County: West Glamorgan
Volume: 27
Page: 2282

The Llanelly birth is the ONLY one which comes anywhere near your info

Is this the death of the woman in question?

Name: Phyllis Edwina Hughes
Birth Date: 21 Dec 1921
Date of Registration: Oct 1988
Age at Death: 66
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 32
Page: 406

AND her marriage?

Marriages Mar 1946 (>99%)

Hughes Philip H Williams Swansea 11a 1919
Williams Phyllis E Hughes Swansea 11a 1919

If she knew her father, his details will be on the cert

born late Dec her birth is more than likely reg in Jan 1922 which brings us back to this birth already posted
Phyllis E Williams
Mother's Maiden Surname: Griffiths
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1922
Registration district: Llanelly
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 2537


would suggest you get the marriage cert to see her dads name

Thank you all for your help
Yes I think I put in the right birth date but the month is wrong in the index so will retry.
My friend was adopted from birth all she has is her real birth certificate showing mums name father blank.
We would love to know grand parents etc.
We know that Phyllis worked in Swansea hospital as a dining room maid in 1943 then in June my friend Jean was born in Cardiff and all she knows is that it was a home for unmarried mums on North Road in Cardiff. Jean was also told that the home on North Road was burnt and all records destroyed. I have traced Phyllis >married Phillip Hughes 1946 in Swansea also that according to records Phyllis> past away 1988 in Warwickshire.On the death record it shows born Dec 21st 1921 so I know this is correct. Yes I might get the marriage certificate as this will show the grandfathers forename and will try again for the birth cert but give it as is.
Once again thank you for all you help :-)

The date of birth on the death cert can also be incorrect...my grandfathers says 1900 when he was born 1897. His marriage cert was no better for his age as he had lied on that...but having his fathers name did help

Why are you applying for a birth cert for someone born in the september quarter? if she was born 21st December 1921 she would probably be registered in march 1922 or at the earliest December 1921

I would not order any birth cert until I had got hold of the marriage cert

A little more info.
Phyllis while working in Swansea Hospital lived at Grandparents ? 31 James Street Swansea, I checked google earth and the property is still standing I would like to find the Census for james street 1911 and see if this leads any where with grandparents,, I am on the case Thanks Everyone :-D

1911
THOMAS, Ben Head Married 13 years M 34 1877 Fur Man Swansea Glam
THOMAS, Eva Wife Married F 32 1879 Swansea Glam

31 James St Swansea
RG14PN32775 RG78PN1870 RD594 SD3 ED18 SN337

In 1911 they had no children despite being married for 13 years, so they are unlikley to be her grandparents.

I'd certainly ask your friend to get her mother's marriage certificate. The witnesses may be relatives.

As for the date of birth on the death certificate; May be it is correct, may be it isn't! When my father registered my grandmother's, he gave the wrong year. And this was in 1970! He could have been muddled, he may have believed the year was genuine. Who knows?

Tina, .On the death record it shows born Dec 21st 1921 so I know this is correct. ?
To be honest that is probably one peace of information on a death cert that should be looked at with a critical eye

The accuracy of info on a death cert is only as good as the informants knowledge and although the death could have been registered by a close relation does not make it correct,

people generally remember a birth day but over time the year of birth is a different matter

Also you will find in the course of doing your research that no matter how good a the info from rellies appears to be they are generally correct apart from,

They get names, places, dates,and events mixed up over time,

most of us have first hand experience of this so i would suggest that when doing your research you cast a critical eye over info received through word of mouth and only go with what can be proved

we can all give specific examples of this,

Roy

Thank you for the info on James street. Jean called in today and I let her read all the messages, she shed a tear at all the help with information received.The only thing we could come up with for James street that Phyllis was perhaps boarding there/ ?
I have ordered the Birth Certificate and marriage certificate and we will see when it arrives.
My next step will be to find out if Phyllis was an only child. Also did Phyllis and Phillip have any children.
Thank you all again for your input. :-D

Hi Guys and Girls
Is there any way of finding out the census for 1946 of 31 james street as I have marriage certificate and address is James Street 31.
But afraid Birth Certificate is wrong my fault I was to impulsive put two and two together hoping they make 4. Parents names are blank on marriage cert. with in the presence of Jean Davies who could be Mum as there was a Phyllis registered for birth in the first quarter of 1922 but shows no middle name and born in Swansea which is possible, and a clue mother maiden name Davies....11a 2224
There is another Phyllis E Williams registered 1922 with a middle name begining with E and born in Llanelly this is also possible is there any way of finding out what the E stands for with out buying the certificate.
Any help would be grateful. I am trying very trying LOL :-)

There is no such document as a census for 1946

Censuses are taken every ten years, and the most recent to which public access is allowed is the 1911

You could search the Electoral Roll for 1946, if you are able to get to the main public library in Cardiff.

Are you saying that there is no father's name for Phyllis on her marriage cert?

What was her declared age - and her full name?

No way of seeing cert info without buying, I'm afraid

The Llanelly birth is one you were given some days ago, but the father was known on that one