Genealogy Chat

hi, my grandmother was born at 10 Trafalgar st gravesend in 1910 which is the address of the Trafalgar Rd Workhouse (her mother was an unmarried girl of 18 when she gave birth). the workhouse later became St James' hospital - my question is.. when did it become a hospital and not a workhouse???? Another of my ancestors died at 10 Trafalgar Rd in 1926. Was it a workhouse then or the hospital?
thanks for any help anyone can give!
vanessa

Vanessa, have you tried a google search, or contacting the local history society if there is one? The nearest main library might help too.
Do bear in mind that workhouses often served as the local hospital, so even if she was born there it doesn't mean they were residents of the workhouse.

Try this site:

www.rootschat.com

Jan

HI Jan,
thanks for your reply. This was my first ever posting and it is exciting to get such a prompt reply. ( i see from your profile that you are a little more experienced....
i did try google all day and got some interesting information but I didn't think about contacting the local history society.
the residence of my great grandmother was given as 10 Trafalgar Rd so I think it was the workhouse at this time. the 1911 census describes the residents as "inmates"..
thank you again
vanessa

Workhouse 'system' only went out of use in 1930, but the infirmary attached was often the only source of healthcare available, so quite possible that she gave birth there if she needed hospital care.

More info

www.workhouses.org.uk

Andy

It does sound as if thy might have been residents then. Just had a thought - have you tried contacting the hospital itself? I work in an old hospital which was a workhouse, and the history is well-recorded, so give it a go.
Jan

Just a query - you say the workhouse was Trafalgar st but her address was Trafalgar Rd. Is this right or just a slip of the typing finger?!
Jan

Hi Andrew, thanks for your reply, and the information about the cessation of the workhouse system.
this makes sense as the ancestor who died there was and electrician and presumably not workhouse poor, so maybe he went to that address for the infirmary.
the website is really interesting, but just doesn't give me that elusive date for changeover, but I will persevere!

thanks
vanessa

Hi Jan,
yes, it was my typo.. and I blame census takers for their incorrect entries!!!
the hospital is demolished and houses have been built so I will contact the history society as I think this is my best bet.
thank you again
vanessa

The surviving records for the workhouse are held here


• Centre for Kentish Studies, Sessions House, County Hall, Maidstone, Kent, ME14 1XQ. Holdings include: Guardians' minutes (1835-1930); Births (1848-1913); Deaths (1871-1914); Creed registers (1924-39); Children's home superintendent's journal (1899-1916); etc.

Appear to includ the time that your grandmother was born. They may shed light on why she was there.

Andy

Andrew, you are very kind to send me that information. it would be great to see it.
i will send them a message to see how I can access copies as I live in Australia.
thank you again
vanessa

Workhouses had infirmary's and these also treated local people who couldn't afford the private Doctor. This didnt mean they were in the Workhouse.
As time went on people objected to the ref of workhouse when they were never in it but did get medical care in the hospital so it was decided that the postal address would given rather than any reference to it being the Workhouse Infirmary.

When the NHS started in the 1940.s lots of these hospitals were big local hospitals and became the local NHS hospital.

i have death certs where our local workhouse hopital was the place of death and its postal address is given as the place of death with the persons home address given with the occupation

Because health care was so expensive many women had their children at the Workhouse Infirmaries.

I have a g/g/g/aunt who had all 11 of her children in the Workhouse Infirmary and then after her confinement went home.

Many of the old Workhouse Infirmaries later went on to become Cottage Hospitals.

And after 1930's although no longer called Workhouses, they were still in existance and called Reception Centres. These remained in use right up to the 1960's.

Our daughter was born in the local main Hospital in 1958 which was the original Workhouse infirmary and became the local main hospital under the NHS in the 1940, s.

Its only because i knew the road its was in that i was able to identify it on the earlier death certs right up the to 1930.,s

HI Shirley and Pigletspal,

thank you both so much for your information.
i have approached the centre for kentish studies as per andrew's suggestion to get details for my ancestors, but it is wonderful to put all this information into context with what was happening in health care in the early 20th century.

warm regards
vanessa

Gravesend Central Library has a FH section.

http://www.kent.gov.uk/KCC.Libraries.Web.Sites.Public/LibraryDetails.aspx?aid=0&lid=41

You could email them for further information about the Work House. They also have a volunteer from the local FH group go in once a week to help researchers. You could ask them to pass on your query if they can't help.

Because of the location, I'm unsure if the Kent Family History Society covers Gravesend, or the North West Kent Family History Society does. They meet in Dartford. There are also various branches of FHS in the area, but not all are associated with the main body.

Have you seen this link?
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Gravesend/
I think that the site now has privately owned, warden supported, retirement flats called St James' Oak.

If you haven't already, you could look to see if your grandmother or her siblings were baptised C of E on
http://cityark.medway.gov.uk/
The Gravesend and surrounding areas are being transcribed on http://www.freereg.org.uk/
but it is a work in progress. If you do find the transcription, use it to isolate the original image on Cityark.

Do you have your grandfather's normal place of residence on the DC? if it was within the Gravesham (previously Gravesend) borough, you could contact the Cemeteries Dept for Gravesham. As you know when he died, they will look up on their records to see if and where he was buried in their cemeteries.

http://www.gravesham.gov.uk/index.jsp?articleid=2243

Ask on the thread for a volunteer to go and look if there is a headstone - someone local may be able to take a photo for you if there is.

Hi Detective,
thanks for all your really useful tips.
i can't find my grandmother on the baptisms for St George on Cityark, nor can I find her only half-brother (william gaskin b 1916). i may have to wait for more transcriptions.
i did find another ancestor which was really exciting!
i did read that baptisms were sometimes done in the workhouse so I will persue that avenue (maybe by asking the kind researcher at the library).

great idea about looking up the burial site.

i am so pleased that you were able to spend the time to give me this information.
seasons greetings to you!
vanessa

Hope that you are able to find something new.

If you wanted to put your grandmother's name and DOB up, other people may be able to find new information on her. Although she may not have been baptised, then again it may not have been in St George's, and may even have been at a later date.

Cynthia says she 'loves' digging around on CityArk, so if you are willing to give a few more details, we can make sure that she knows about this thread.

Other possible venues are


Gravesend St. James baptisms 1852-1967 and marriages 1852-1954 (P159B)
[Greenhithe, see also Swanscombe]
Milton next Gravesend, Christchurch baptisms 1857-1968 and marriages 1857-1954 (P252C)
Milton next Gravesend, Holy Trinity (P252B)
Milton next Gravesend, St. Andrew’s Mission Church baptisms 1865-1970 (P252B)
Milton next Gravesend, St. Peter and St. Paul CMB 1558-1938 (P252)

You sometimes find that parents take their child to the 'family' church, even if they live outside the Parish. Workhouse/Hospital baptisms are 'usually' entered in the parish records where the Clergyman is based, especially by 1910, and then 'usually' if the child was not expected to survive. A 'P' in the margin (Private) often suggests this.

hi Detective
thank you,thank you for this information.
i will head off to do some more searching. ( I hope no-one in my house is wanting presents or food this Christmas!).

how do you know al this information? are you a kent local or are you really experienced ( I guess detectives probably are...).

here is the information I have regarding my grandmother....how will Cynthia get it??

my grandmother was Evelyn Mary EVES born to Annie EVES at 10 Trafalgar Rd, Gravesend, on 10th November 1910.
Annie Eves was unmarried, no fathers name on Evelyn's birth certificate.

Annie married William Gaskin in 1915 - registered in Strood. (I have a copy of the certificate on order to try to find out if it was a church wedding)Annie and William had a son, William who was born in 1916 and survived but a few months.

my ultimate aim would be to find Evelyn's biological father, but I realise this may be impossible. all I know about him is that he lived in the Gravesend / Northfleet area when Evelyn was growing up.
I know that Evelyn adored her step-father William and it is his name she quotes as "father" on her wedding certificate.

I'll send Cynthia a link to this thread, then if/when she has time, she will probably acknowledge on here. She's really brill' with Cityark!

Detective...

i'VE FOUND HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She wsa bapitsed at St James on 9th March 1911.
Unfortunately, no father's name, but at least I know for sure that that part of my tree is gone... (isn't it??? - what other avenues are there????)

i am so excited,