Genealogy Chat

In the last few years I have found out that my Grandfather was adopted and I am trying to find out who his real parents were. I believe that the parents that raised him were related to him in some way.
Edward was born 1908 in London, England to my family he was always known as Edward Francis Gay but according to his birth Certificate he was Frank Edwin Cecil Gay born to a Lily Gay and no father. I believe that Lily Gay is a made up name as we cannot find a Lily Gay.
My family have a couple of theorys as to who his mother is and one is the mother who raised him niece Ivey Elsie Emily Edith Cooper or his so called sister Edith Florence Louisa Maud Gay daughter to his adopted mother Edith Louisa Gay nee Cleak and Frank Henry Gay.
This is so frustrating not know who his parents are I would dearly love to find out so if anyone know anything of this family I would love to hear from you.
Family names associated with this mystery Gay, Cooper, Brazier, Cleak.
Louise

Have you found him in 1911 census?

A Francis Edwin of same age is in Hackney, but with an Ernest William GAY and Amy GAY.

Perhaps someone with full access will post details for you, incase it's the right person.

Gwyn

1911 census -
HAYTON, Amy Head Single F 35 1876 Secretary Drapery Est London Dalston
HAYTON, Violet Maude Sister Single F 24 1887 Assistant Drapery Est London Hackney
GAY, Ernest William Head Married M 33 1878 Ass't Manager Privision Merchant London Hackney
GAY, Amy Wife Married
4 years F 30 1881 London Hackney
GAY, Francis Edwin Son M 3 1908 London Hackney

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number: RG14 Piece: 1037
Reference: RG14PN1037 RG78PN35 RD11 SD2 ED4 SN271
Registration District: Hackney Sub District: North Hackney
Enumeration District: 4 Parish: St John At Hackney
Address: 56 Gunton Road Upp Clapton N E County: London

Thanks Gwyn
But I do have him in the 1911 Census he was with his adopted parents Edith Louisa and Frank Henry Gay.
It is really relative's or decsendants of Edward's or Edith or Frank that I really need to hear from as it is a family secret so I need to hear from someone that may know that secret.
Edith's sister was Annie Cecilla Brazier nee Cleak and Emily Cooper nee Cleak so any of their decsendants may know too.
I have done so much research on this and I dont know that I will ever find the answers but it wont be for the lack of trying.
Thanks again Gwyn.

For reference -

Births Dec 1908 (>99%)
Gay Frank Edwin C Hackney 1b 4[53]4

Thanks Lynski
I have a feeling his mother may have been his adopted mothers niece Ivy Elsie Emily Edith Cooper I would dearly love to find someone researching the Cooper family there are many children in this family and I have not yet been able to come in contact with anyone researching this family.
Very frustrating.
Thanks again.

Have you tried Search Trees on this site? There are many members with the surnames you are looking for in their trees.

You could make contact with some of the members to see if you have a connection.

Do you have marriage details for Annie Cecilla Brazier nee Cleak and Emily Cooper nee Cleak?

I can't find them on FreeBMD??

Births Mar 1858 (>99%)
Cleak Anne Cecilia Honiton 5b 38


Marriages Dec 1850 (>99%)
Cleak Samuel Taunton 10 719
Goodman Emma Taunton 10 719

1851 census -
CLEAK, Samuel Head Married M 26 1825 Clock Maker Taunton Somerset
CLEAK, Emma Wife Married F 19 1832 Taunton Somerset

RG number: HO107 Piece: 1923 Folio: 77 Page: 35
Registration District: Taunton Sub District: Taunton Saint James Enumeration District: 1C Ecclesiastical Parish:
Civil Parish: Saint James Municipal Borough: Taunton
Address: Back Lane, Saint James, Taunton County: Somersetshire


1861 census –
CLEAK, Samuel Head Married M 36 1825 Watchmaker Taunton Somerset
CLEAK, Emma Wife Married F 29 1832 Taunton Somerset
CLEAK, Emily Daughter Unmarried F 5 1856 Fullerton Devon
CLEAK, Anne D F 3 1858 Ottery St Mary Devon
CLEAK, Spencer Son M 0 (4M) 1861 London

RG number: RG09 Piece: 65 Folio: 18 Page: 32
Registration District: St James Westminster Sub District: 3 Golden Square
Enumeration District: 7 Ecclesiastical Parish: London
Civil Parish: St James Municipal Borough: Westminster
Address: 26, King Street, St James, London, Westminster County: London, Middlesex

1871 census –
CLEAK, Samuel Head M 45 1826 Somerset
CLEAK, Emma Wife F 39 1832 Somerset
CLEAK, Emily Daughter F 15 1856 Devon
CLEAK, Annie Cecelia Daughter F 13 1858 Devon
CLEAK, Spencer Son M 10 1861 London
CLEAK, Edith Louisa Daughter F 0 1871 Worcestershire

RG number: RG10 Piece: 3048 Folio: 94 Page: 54
Registration District: Worcester Sub District: Worcester, West Enumeration District: 10
Ecclesiastical Parish: Civil Parish: All Saints Municipal Borough: Worcester
Address: Angel Street, Little, All Saints, Worcester County: Worcestershire


1891 census -
CLEAK, Samuel Head Married M 67 1824 Watch Maker Taunton Somersetshire
CLEAK, Emma Wife Married F 59 1832 Dressmaker Taunton Somersetshire

RG number: RG12 Piece: 91 Folio: 5 Page: 7
Registration District: Marylebone Sub District: All Souls Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish: Trinity Civil Parish: St Marylebone Municipal Borough:
Address: 52, Upper Marylebone Street, St Marylebone, London County: London

Deaths Sep 1896 (>99%)
Cleak Samuel 72 Chelsea 1a 258

Deaths Mar 1900 (>99%)
Cleak Emma 69 Fulham 1a 282

?????
Marriages Sep 1889 (>99%)
Brazier William George Chelsea 1a 603
Marshall Annie Cecelia Chelsea 1a 603
Marshall Annie Cecilia Chelsea 1a 603

Thank you so much Lynski I will have a look through the information that you have given me and yes I have looked through all the tree's on here and written to many people unfortunately some do not reply so it makes it very hard.
I have never been able to find a marriage for Emily Cleak she married William John Cooper. They had nine children I just so wish I could find one of their decsendants.
Thank you so much again for your help.
Louise

It looks as though Annie Cecelia was married before?

However, I haven't been able to find her first marriage.

I shall keep looking...........for Emily's too.
Perhaps they never married??

Have you found William John and Emily Cooper in the census? If so, can you let me know which census and where?

I just might have stumbled on them.....??

1891 census -
COOPER, William J Head Married M 46 1845 Foreman Clicker Boot Trade
Pimlico London VIEW
COOPER, Emily Wife Married F 35 1856 Larkbeer Devonshire VIEW
COOPER, William Son M 9 1882 Marylebone London VIEW
COOPER, Lionel E Son M 8 1883 Marylebone London VIEW
COOPER, Percy C Son M 5 1886 Chelsea London VIEW
COOPER, Claud Son M 3 1888 Chelsea London VIEW
COOPER, Frederick C Son M 1 1890 Chelsea London VIEW
COOPER, Ethel V E Daughter F 0 (8M) 1891 Chelsea London VIEW

RG number: RG12 Piece: 66 Folio: 32 Page: 59
Registration District: Chelsea Sub District: Chelsea North
Enumeration District: Ecclesiastical Parish: St John
Civil Parish: Chelsea Municipal Borough:
Address: 47, Tetcott Road, Chelsea County: London

Am I correct?

1901 census –
COOPER, William J Head Widower M 48 1853 Boot Clicker Pimlico
COOPER, Percy Cyril Son Single M 15 1886 Chelsea
COOPER, Claude E J Son Single M 13 1888 Chelsea
COOPER, Ivy E E Daughter Single F 8 1893 Chelsea
COOPER, Ernest L Son Single M 6 1895 Chelsea
COOPER, Leslie V Son Single M 5 1896 Chelsea

RG number: RG13 Piece: 65 Folio: 89 Page: 16
Registration District: Fulham Sub District: South Fulham
Enumeration District: 4 Ecclesiastical Parish: St Etheldreda
Civil Parish: Fulham Municipal Borough:
Address: 50, Horder Road, Fulham County: London

1911 census –
COOPER, William John Head Widower M 69 1842 Boot Repairer Pimlico West London
COOPER, Bert Son Single M 28 1883 Builders Assistant Labourer Cleveland St W London
COOPER, Percy Son Single M 24 1887 Bottle Washer Stadium St Chelsea London
COOPER, Claude Son Single M 23 1888 Bottle Washer Dartry Rd Chelsea London
COOPER, Ivy Daughter Single F 18 1893 General Domestic Servant Tetcott Rd Chelsea London
TOWNER, Jedith Visitor Single F 38 1873 General Domestic Servant Recents Park London

RG number: RG14 Piece: 332 Reference: RG14PN332 RG78PN10 RD3 SD4 ED29 SN302
Registration District: Fulham Sub District: North East Fulham Enumeration District: 29
Parish: Fulham
Address: 81 Cassidy Road Fulham S W County: London

Even though it is crossed out, I can see on the 1911 census original that 12 children were born with 7 still living.

Births Mar 1888 (>99%)
COOPER Claude Everett J S Chelsea 1a 352

Marriages Jun 1915 (>99%)
Cooper Claude E J S Rickman Fulham 1a 977
Rickman Mary Cooper Fulham 1a 977

Name: COOPER, Ivy E E E
Registration District: Help Fulham
County: London
Year of Registration: 1916
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: Handford
Volume No: Help 1A
Page No: Help 690

Name: HANDFORD, Frederick J B
Registration District: Fulham
County: London
Year of Registration: 1916
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: Cooper
Volume No: 1A
Page No: 690

Births Sep 1885 (>99%)
Cooper Percy Cyril Chelsea 1a 327

???
Name: COOPER, Percy C
Registration District: Help Fulham
County: London
Year of Registration: 1914
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Brown
Volume No: Help 1A
Page No: Help 836

Name: BROWN, Amelia R
Registration District: Fulham
County: London
Year of Registration: 1914
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Cooper
Volume No: 1A
Page No: 836

??????
Deaths Mar 1892 (>99%)
Cooper William Lionel 10 Chelsea 1a 389

Births Mar 1883 (>99%)
COOPER Lionel Eustace B Marylebone 1a 582

Name: COOPER, Lionel E B
Registration District: Help Fulham
County: London
Year of Registration: 1916
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: Rance
Volume No: Help 1A
Page No: Help 817

Name: RANCE, Susan
Registration District: Fulham
County: London
Year of Registration: 1916
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: Cooper
Volume No: 1A
Page No: 817

Births Sep 1889 (>99%)
Cooper Frederick Charles S Chelsea 1a 336

Deaths Dec 1893 (>99%)
Cooper Frederick Charles S 4 Chelsea 1a 312

Births Sep 1890 (>99%)
Cooper Ethel Victoria E Chelsea 1a 349

Deaths Jun 1892 (>99%)
Cooper Ethel Victoria E 1 Chelsea 1a 296

Thank you so much again I really do appreciate your help.
You have the right Census they are the right names for the Cooper's but I didn't realise she had 12 children I have only found 9.
Sorry Annie was married before his surname was Marshall but I dont know his first name.
I am not sure about Emily and William Coopers marriage I thought a relative told me they were married but none of us have been able to find the marriage.
I would really love to find some grandchildren of Emily's to see if they know anything but I haven't found any yet.
Thank you so much again for your help.

When I look at the 1911 census the name of the child appears to be Edward Parke Gay and when I look at the freebmd for Edward Parke I have found an Edward Parker Dec 1908 ref 1b 454 Hackney.
As Gwyn has found the Francis Gay born Hackney could it be that the wrong birth cert has been sent for?-jl

A second look at the 1911 shows that Edith enters that she has been married 23 years although I think that should read 22, (1889)the same age as their daughter. She also enters the child Edward as her son, not an adoptive son. It appears that the child could be the daughters as it was a practice to pretend the child was the mothers in order to keep up appearances. -jl

I have given you some marriage details for Emily's children so to find any grandchildren you could use

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

to find the children of these marriages - just enter the surnames such as Cooper and Rickman to see what you get.

I just tried it and found 1 birth in 1916 in Fulham.

I have sent you a personal message with a possible marriage and children.