Genealogy Chat

Hi folks.

I know there are twin girls born to a family of mine in Mar 1949. The surname is not unusual, but the mother's maiden name is VERY unusual. So I am convinced they are twins. The thing is, the living family (of which there are many) declare they have never heard of the second twin, and so I must be wrong.

The family is upper middle class. No Ag labs or cotton weavers in their history, all army sergeant majors and accountants and the like. So they didn't pass over the child for money reasons. But might she have been disabled, either mentally or physically, and they sent her to a high class home, or even had her adopted.

Any ideas please how I can find out.

Madmeg

EDIT. Anyone reading, please carry on and you will see that I determined they were not twins. However, it seems there might have been twins after all, and so I have a further question at the end.

Feeling that this might be sensitive to the family, I've removed the hints I gave earlier that could identify them.

Have you looked for a possible early death of the 2nd twin?
Sadly it is possible that if she had a disability, it could be that she was placed in a home.
I know of a family who had a son around that time. Because of a mental handicap, he was shut away and not acknowledged by his family, who raised his sister as an only child with the best of private education.

Gwyn

Have you found the Birth GRO ref? If you'd like to give them here, someone may be able to sort it out for you.

You don't need to give the names, so you are rightly, protecting living people

Hi Detective,

I'm not sure what info I should give, as the person is probably still alive.

Yes Startibartblast, I should get the cert, will do so now. I am pretty sure it will show a twin, with the time of birth on the cert.

No death is showing for her.

The ref is (EDIT, deleted).

Can anybody do anything with that? I doubt it.

Ta

Meg

Don't think Brenda is the correct twin as she and her sister have a different gro no to the one Madmeg gave. Good try though!

(info deleted as the person was born in the 1940's and hopefully alive)

If MM doesn't mind giving the mmn, we might be able to find the birth name with a better chance of any death

Is that the right GRO number Meg as it is for the Sept qtr and you said the twins were born in March so the latest would be the June qtr for registration

Sorry Ann (and others), I don't know where I got March from. Sept is correct, as is the reference. The mmn is (EDIT - deleted). I can see both birth registrations both on Ancestry and on the GRO records. They do both have the same middle initial (M). The family has a record of naming children after ancestors, so I guess one of these girls has the middle name Mary, the mother's middle name (the first daughter had the mother's first name as a middle name). The other could be Mabel, the maternal grandmother.

I've sent for the cert, so maybe I just have to be patient.

It won't let me put in less than 3 characters. J is missing, never heard of. I don't know who C married, or even if she did, EDIT, but is still alive.

Cert arrived - not twins! J M was re-named C M in the final column. Never seen that before.

glad you solved it meg - the family were right after all

Well, what a suprise!

Just thinking, the eldest child had the initials M J, they might have only later realised the confusion of having two daughters with the same initials (albeit reversed) might cause.

I wish someone would have a look at my Catherine Turley thread - 1251855.

Meg

Glad to see that the ammended certificate gave you the answer.

I have a birth cert(1888) which was later ammended to show that the so-called girl was really a boy. !

Gwyn

Gwyn, did the midwife not tip him upside down to look for the appropriate bits?

Meg

Further question, folks.

Over Christmas (phew!) I presented the tree to date of this family to my relative (who isn't yet a relative!) and he took it back home and showed it to his family at another gathering. Two of them were convinced that there were twins, despite my "proving" otherwise. So all I can think of is that JM was born alive, and CM (or maybe C something else) was stillborn, and the parents later amended the name of the living twin to than of the stillborn one. As their are no stillbirth records available to the public, there is nothing more I can do, and I get the impression the family don't want any further investigation on it. I have to respect that.

But just a question. If the other twin had been stillborn, would the certificate of the live twin still show a time of birth? The cert I have does not have a time of birth.

Hope you all had a good Christmas, and are looking forward to more aggro (oops - I meant fun!) in 2011.

Madmeg

I would guess that there would be no need to record a time of birth ( which might in some circumstances be needed to establish 'first-born' ) if only one live birth occured.

Gwyn

No, I suppose not Gwyn. I also suppose that different registrars could do it differently.

I think I have inadvertently unearthed a potentially upsetting situation for the surviving twin, in that she may have been renamed in the name of her dead twin and never knew it. Though if she had a copy of her full birth cert, she would see the amendment. Maybe she hasn't. Or maybe thought nothing of it. Perhaps I should stop at this point, as I am told that the surviving twin has no knowledge that she was a twin, if indeed she was. There is no history of twins in the family previously or afterwards. I don't know the lady concerned at all, so maybe I should leave it for now.

Thanks for any ideas, which I will file away.

Madmeg

Only non identical twins tend to run in families.

Well, Katie, I've no evidence of any twins at all in this family, whether identical or non-identical. I have a friend with non-identical twins, and no previous history, so it seems anything can happen.

Madmeg

Still births dont appaer in the birth registers- A child has to take a breath to be registered as 'born'. if they are stillborn ( dont breathe) then they go on another register - the still birth register.

if there is a birth, there should be a death....( marriage or whatever)

do you want to send the birth registration refs & Names , so I can see what you are talking about?