Genealogy Chat

This is what i have so far

just had post marriage cert says his Father henry George Williams Deceased




Birth Cert says father William Rufus Williams (Same as His name )
Mother Rose Williams Formerly Williams

so wiliam Rufus Williams was born 28 Januray 1900
born in Bristol 100 Part street Knowle Bristol England
Regards Angela

Angela please remove your personal email address from your thread. Not only is it risky, it against the rules.

It would seem to me that one of these certificates is incorrect.

Presumably the marriage certificate is to a woman that you already knew about, so that more or less confirmed it was the right one?

So did you then look to find the groom and his father on census records?

Did you manage to find William Rufus Williams with a father Henry George Williams?

It is not usually wise to get a birth certificate without first getting a marriage certificate.

Hi Madmeg
i ordered William Rufus Williams & Ada Scotts Marriage Cert
On the Cert Williams R Williams ( Thats my friend 's father ) as his father down as Henry George Williams Deceased
( Witness on Marriage cert is Henry George Williams )
And Emma Scott )

so i sent for William Rufus Williams Birth Cert ( that's Thats my Friends Father so i have his mothers name as well on the marriage cert )
But on the Birth cert For

William Rufus William = Date of Birth 28/01/1900
Parents is
William Rufus Williams and Mother Rose Williams Formerly Williams

so that is what i have it seems strange that There are two diffrent Father down on his birth cert and marriage cert
so who is Henry George Williams Witness on marriage cert
and Who the father of william Rufus Williams
regards
Angela

That is odd. This looks likely for 1901:

1901 census transcription details for: 1, Railway Cottages, Bristol

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13 Piece: 2363 Folio: 66 Page: 37

Reg. District: Bristol Sub District: Bedminster
Parish: Bristol Enum. District: 42
Ecclesiastical District: Bedminster St Lukes City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 1, Railway Cottages, Bristol
County: Gloucestershire

WILLIAMS, Henry Head Married M 38 1863 General Labourer Warehouse
Cheltenham
Gloucestershire
WILLIAMS, Rose Wife Married F 35 1866 Tailoress
Bath
Somersetshire
WILLIAMS, Maud Daughter Single F 15 1886 General Servant Domestic
Bristol
WILLIAMS, Beatrice Daughter Single F 13 1888
Cardiff Glangetown
WILLIAMS, Lilian Daughter Single F 10 1891
Canton
WILLIAMS, Henry Son Single M 6 1895
Canton
WILLIAMS, Herbert Son Single M 5 1896
Bristol
WILLIAMS, William Son Single M 1 1900
Bristol
WILLIAMS, Winifred Daughter Single F 0 (2 MOS) 1901
Bristol

Maureen

My brain seems a bit slower than usual tonight. Please explain.

Angela, you say:

i ordered William Rufus Williams & Ada Scotts Marriage Cert
On the Cert Williams R Williams ( Thats my friend 's father ) as his father down as Henry George Williams Deceased
( Witness on Marriage cert is Henry George Williams )
And Emma Scott )

so i sent for William Rufus Williams Birth Cert ( that's Thats my Friends Father so i have his mothers name as well on the marriage cert )

I don't understand the last bit - you say you have William Rufus's mother's name on the marriage certificate. Are you assuming that this is Emma Scott? But she is not William Rufus Williams' mother, or indeed anybody's mother. She could be a sister of Ada, or a sister in law, or an aunt, or even other relationships.

I have to start with that marriage certificate. The Henry George Williams who witnessed it is clearly not William Rufus's father, could be a brother. So who is Emma Scott?

Sorry, I can't progress till I have it clear.

Obviously the name William Rufus Williams isn't going to be common, but I just wondered how you had made your assumptions.

i will start again
I was Helping a Friend find his Granparents
he only new that His Father was
William Rufus Williams DOB 28/01/1900
His Mother Was ADA Scott

os i sent for marriage cert of Ada Scott And William Rufus Williams

on the Marriage cert We have 28/11/1922
William williams age 22 years Bachelor Smith's Stricker 51 Clark street bedminster Bristol His fathers name is Down as Henry George Williams deceased He was a Tailor

Ada Scott age 22 years Spinster Living at 22 Richmond terrace Bedminster
her father Walter Scott Deceased Cabinet maker

William & Ada Witness was Emma scott & Henry George Williams
Marriage took place in bristol Registy office

so its not down as William Rufus Williams ( as Father of William rufus Williams Ada's Husbands Dad)
so i sent for the birth cert of william williams (Ada's Husband )
Date of birth 28/01/1900
Fathers name William rufus Williams
Mothers Name Rose Williams Formerly Williams
there adress was 100 Park street Totterdown Bristol ( England )
hope i have put it a bit better to under stand
Regards Angela

Angela I am getting even slower.

So, am I right in this?

Your friend said his grandfather was William Rufus Williams, and his grandmother was Ada Scott. Presumably he knew roughly when they married and where? That was Bedminster, Bristol, I know it well.

How sure was he that his grandmother was Ada Scott? Did he just know her name as Ada and not her surname? Possible.

But the certificate you got did not have the name Rufus on it. It was a certiificate for William Williams (or was it William R Williams as you say in your thread?) and Ada Scott, his father being Henry George Williams (deceased).

Your earlier post on this thread said

Thats my Friends Father so i have his mothers name as well on the marriage cert. A mother's name is not shown on a marriage cert. So I don't understand what you mean. How did you have his mother's name?

You then sent for a birth cert of William Williams (not William Rufus Williams), and that came back with his father as being William Rufus Williams? So your friend's grandfather might not have had Rufus in his name, but his father did? And his mother was Rose Williams (very inconsiderate!).

So now we have a conflict. The marriage cert you have of William Williams says his father is Henry George, but the birth certificate you have says his father is William Rufus.

Well, one is wrong.

It is possible there was a William Rufus in the family, and your friend has assumed this is her grandfather.

I just don't want you to go down the wrong track because of things that might be obvious.

So can we start with your friend.

Does he have his own birth or marriage certificate? That will show his father at least, and if a birth cert, it will show his mother too.

Who are his parents? (If they are still alive, send me a private message on that, and I will let the people here have what they need to know to help).

Assuming his father is somebody Williams, does he then have the marriage certificate of his parents, OR the birth certificate of his father (even better). If not, that is the next thing to get. One of these, whichever he is most sure about.

If he already has them, can we please know who his father was, according to that certificate.

Then we can start to move on.

Something isn't right Angela, so we must take it one step at a time.

Margaret

i will start With My friend Jack he his the Son of William Rusfus and Ada Scott
Jack he whanted to know who his granparnts was .He was told His Granfather Died beetween the Years of 1900 1915
Now he had no name for His Granparents the only Name He had His His mother Ada Scott Born in Bristol He thinks DOB 08/02/1900 date of death may 1986

And the Name Of His own father William Rufus Williams DOB 28/01/1900 Date of Death 1962 Bristol
Born in bristol
So Ada And William Rufus Williams are Jacks Mum and Dad
so i orderd Wiliam Rufus Williams Brith Cert at Bristol Reg Office
But they Said all 1900 records were Burn by a fire in the www1 war
So i sent for it on line GRO
So i orderd William Rusfus Williams And Ada Scotts Marriage Cert ( jacks Parents }
at Bristol Reg office
Now i have Ada And William Rufus Williams Marriage cert

i will leave Ada scott detail out for now

William Rufus Williams (jacks Dad ) Age 22
His Father is Down As Henry George WilliamsDeceased
( Thats William Rufus Williams Father Down As Henry )
Now the witness on the Marriage Cert was henry George Williams and Emma Scott

so you would Think the Granparents for Jack is Henry George Williams ( Deceased )
But When the birth Cert can for william Rufus Williams (Jacks Dad )
DOB 28/01/1900
Parents are Rose williams formerly Williams & William Rufus Williams
so it is really confusing
Regards Angela

Ah, okay, I have the picture now, thanks and sorry to be such a noddy.

I'm afraid I can't help much. In 1911 the best I can find is George Williams 48, with Willie 11 and Elsie 8. George is a Widower born Cheltenham and is a General Labourer, as in 1901 that Maureen found. There is a death of Rose Williams in Sep 1910 (also one in 1904 but she looks too old). There is also a baby died around the same time, so she might have died in childbirth.

I am at a loss to explain the father being William Rufus Williams unless the Registrar made a mistake. It's a pity those records were lost in WW1. It might be worth asking the GRO to check again, they may have ways and means.

George Henry Williams
Year of Registration: 1863
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Cheltenham
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 377 (click to see others on page)

But there are several other possibilities.

We need the marriage of Rose Williams.

Possible?

Williams Henry Cardiff 11a 402 Sep 1886
Williams Rose Cardiff 11a 402

Nothing any better, though she says she is from Bath, but Beatrice is born in Cardiff.

Forgot to add, the witness probably IS the father after all.

Does Jack remember his grandad having any siblings? He might remember Elsie if you jog his memory.

er- I was thinking that the witness was the brother.

Henry G
Maureen

Oh, Maureen, I am SO stupid. His father is deceased, so he can hardly witness the marriage.

So the witness could be the brother of William Rufus, or perhaps an uncle, and maybe the registrar recorded the witness as the father in error.

Crikey.

It would greatly help if we could find another William b 1900 on the census with a father William and mother Rose. But so far I can't.

Jack thinks his grandfather died about 1915. I can't find a suitable death in Bristol, only in Cardiff.

I'm getting out of ideas now.

Just in case you're searching for elder siblings and don't know the area..

Canton (Welsh: Treganna) is an inner-city district in the west of Cardiff
Grangetown (Welsh: Trelluest) is an area in the west of Cardiff - borders Canton


Although I think the 1901 that Maureen found is spot on. Does the marriage cert happen to give father's occupation or is he just deceased?

Births Mar 1901
Williams Winifred Rose Bristol 6a 46
Winifred is 2 months old on 1901 census and this is the only registration for that time.

Ozi

Ozibird the father is a Tailor. That doesn't tie in with the 1901 or possible 1911 census, but Rose in 1901 was a tailoress.

I'd never heard of Canton or Grangetown, so seems a more Welsh bent than we imagined. Well, not suprising with two parents named Williams!

Now if we move into Wales, there are buckets of William Rufus Williams, it opens up a whole new ball park!

Margaret

Interesting. It's possible he was already ill in 1901 and no longer able to do skilled work - eyesight giving out or something?


Ozi

I'm thinking aloud.

Your friend is Jack Williams. His parents were William Rufus Williams and Ada Scott. Does he have his birth certificate to prove this? Where was he born? Bristol or Wales?

If his parents are the William Rufus Williams and Ada Scott we are looking at, born 1900, your friend is presumably quite elderly.

Can you confirm this please?

Hi Ozibird
Yes Jack was born 1930 or 1933
he knows his father was william Rufus William Born 28/01/ 1900
and died 1962
jack was born in Bristol England
now jack told me tonight that His Father William Rufus William Run away in the Army Becouse His Father Died (so the William Rufus Williams on His Birth Cert Hi Jack Father's Father . That died Befor 1915 )
now jack said the rest of the William RufusWilliams and Rose's Family went to Diffrent places to live like Neighbours and relatives
so at a guess i would say that when Jacks Father Can out of the Army he went to live with A relative on His mother or Father Side and i think thats were Henry George Williams comes in Place . or was it Rose Williams Father Named Henry George William and Her Brother ?? thats on the marriage cert

What do you mean by "the William Rufus Williams on his birth certificate is Jack's father's father"?

I did ask if your Jack had his own birth certificate to prove that his parents were William Rufus Williams and Ada SCott.

Does he have that? In which case he will know whether or not he was born in 1930 or in 1933.

If he doesn't have that, then we could be just guessing.

Margaret

Hi yes Jack as his own birth cert with his Fathers Name as William rufus Williams and Mother Ada Scott
Now to make thing Harder Jack Said His father Had 3 Sisters Names Unnone to jack
he sure one of the sisters went to Canada
and his father Had A cousin Bert
Regards Angela
I would like to say thank you for all the Help you are all Giving me
on this family