Genealogy Chat

I am wondering if anyone else has problems with typed certificates? I have received one from Manchester for a marriage between James Marsden and Susan Jane HEATON. Father's name is given as Thomas HEATH (deceased), however on her birth cert. her father's name is given as Thomas HEATON!. Is this a transcription error (as bad writing could make it look like Heath) and is there any way of ordering a copy of the original (bristol to manchester is a long way to travel to see it in the flesh). Also a witness is given as Elizabeth EATON (no H) but there was a sister Elizabeth (HEATON). Lastly why do some places insist on typing them rather than scanning the original?

There was a thread on this subject a little while ago.

Only a small handful of local Register Offices have the original copies in their possession. Many have been destroyed, others may have been deposited at the loacal Archive Centre, so even a scanned copy, is in most cases, a copy of someones transcription. Whilst some of the larger office may have sacnning facilities so at best you receive a typewitten copy, or more often a handwritten one at the time you order it.

Errors such as this are common. My own marriage certificate is wrongly transcribed for both our names, would you believe. Looking at the original in our possession it is easy to see why it happened. We have logged a correction at the GRO, which they have now made, but obviously the filmed index in the possession of sites such as Ancestry and Free BMD are incorrect.

You can always query it with the registrar but the original can not be changed, even if wrong, only an amendment noted if the details can be proven.

My great grandfathers' marriage actually has the wrong surname - he was married in the next parish as my great grandmother was already in her ninth month of pregnancy with my grandfather, so it could be the vicar, not knowing him, misheard his broad yorkshire accident.

Don't forget that no one made any checks on the information given, many could not read or write so the vicar or registrar wrote down what he heard.

What period are you talking about?

Thanks for the information, it supports my theory abut names given verbally and also wrongly transcribed later on. The marriage cert. in question is 1892.

Phone Manchester RO and see what they say abt it - Manchester has a good reputation for being helpful.

Thanks, i will try phoning them tomorrow. Will they have the original handwritten entry that my cert. has been typed from do you know?

If they married in church you need to find out where the record is.
If they married in the registry office then they should have the record.

BrinsleyS - I think you're not quite right there. I think all local registery office have all their records, and none were deposited in the local records office.
However, stuff they might collect, like the church's copy of an old marr register is likely to be in the county records office. The real bother about getting scanned images of register entries is that most local offices don't have either the capability or the staff to produce them. (This is where one appreciates Scottish rellies, as SP sells images - uncertified, it's true, but they're only a pound apiece.)

Jim S - they did get marr in church (Ancoats, St. Andrew), but the rego office will know where the original is (As I said above, I believe they've got it.)

Anyway, Linda can clear all this up when she calls them.

I'm sorry but new to all this and now confused! I applied for the cert. by following the link from freebmd to the General Register Office. When you say contact Manchester RO do you mean Records Office or Register Office as i see they have 2 different numbers. Sorry to be so naive! Linda

You need to contact the the Manchester Register Office, who have custody of the original register.

The GRO does not hold any original details, only copies prvided by each of the many local Register Offices. This is why many researchers prefer going back to the original Register Office as it removes at least one transcription process, and therefore a chance of error.

mgnv

I think on reflection you are right.

However I do recall reading some time ago that some Register Offices are unable to go back to the original documents in their custody as they are in a poor state, and as a result of the deterioration were copied, often many years ago, so the best you can get is detail from that copy.

Incidentally this little site is a must for your Favourites

http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/indexbd.htm

BrinsleyS. Thanks i now have the number ready for tomorrow! Will let you all know how it goes.

Now I am confused!
How would the register office have the church records?
Surely they would still be in the church or in the archives.

As you bought it from the GRO, you could ring them directly to ask them to check it -
01704 569824

Thanks Joy i might try that as well.

Jim, yes this is where I get confused too.

It does seem that some churches had two physical registers, one of which was sent to the Superintendent Registrar, the other which they kept, and would eventually find its way to the Local / County Archive, possibly. What we don't know with any certainty is which of these contain original signatures and which are transcripted.

What is also unclear is what exactly is held by the local Register Office. It seems from earlier dialogues on this topic tham some hold an original, actually signed by the married couple, whereas others only have a transcript of the original. I am primarily referring here to Church marriages as presumably for Reg Office marriages the do have the original signed copy.

Hi everyone we have a progress report on the rogue m/certificate. Have spoken to Gen. Rg. Off in Southport (supplier of cert.) and they agreed that Thomas HEATH as father to Susan Jane HEATON could be a transcription error and have promised to locate the original and check the details thoroughly. Asked them to also look again at witness of Elizabeth EATON as this too seems like could be an error. Will keep you all posted when i hear back from them.

I suggested Linda phone Manchester as she said that was where she received the certificate from in her first post.

I think it's clear that the local offices have the original registrations (with the informant's signature) for births and deaths, but I'm no longer so positive about marriages that the registrar didn't attend, like CofE marrs.

I've been following JimS's thread:
Tips Board: Did you marry in church?
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1160183

On my own marriage certificate, for the signature, it definitely looks like my typing.

I'm not sure if this helps at all in clearing up the "original" register/signature question but........

On a microfilm of a marriage register which I am currently transcribing the vicar has made a margin note each time he sends a copy for inclusion in the GRO. Without actually going upstairs and reading one of these I can't remember exactly where the copy goes but I think it's a local diocean office or something. There was also a margin note made 20 years after the marriage which stated the the surname should have been BONNY not BUNNY as written in the bride and her fathers details, HOWEVER she signed BUNNY!

So in this case the original signatures are in the register held by the Church which ends up at the local record office.

However I have a vague memory (it was 33 years ago) of signing 2 registers at the church!

Jan

Quote
On my own marriage certificate, for the signature, it definitely looks like my typing.
mgnv
Brilliant!

Still not heard back from Manchester about their investigation into the details on the marriage cert. Will give them until Monday then will ring again, and check their progress.