Genealogy Chat

I can see from the 1881 where you get the Ireland birth for Michael.

However, in your original posts you suggested that the parents married about 1860.

If you are thinking that the 1871 census is possibly correct, then there are two children older than Michael, named Kate and Sarah. On the 1871, it states that all the children, including these two older children (as well as Michael) were born in Masbro. Masbro and Kimberworth all fall under the Rotherham registration district.

It's best to try and get these facts confirmed first, i.e. both the 1871 and 1881 census records are definitely for the same family and also try and confirm exactly where all the children were born. I would also include trying to match up the names of the children from the two census records.

The Irish records aren't particularly user friendly so getting as much of the English records closed off first might be the best move.

Do you have any of the family on the 1891 census?

There are two deaths under Rotherham registration district:

Deaths Jun 1888 (>99%)
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LARKIN Sarah 55 Rotherham 9c 370

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Deaths Dec 1890 (>99%)
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Larkin Hugh 67 Rotherham 9c 421


These might be the parents. Age of death seems to be a good match to the ages on the census records. Births calculated from age at death are:

Hugh born circa 1823
Sarah born circa 1833

Marriage perhaps in 1853/1854/1855 with Kate born in 1856. All of the above is pure speculation and relies on both census records being correct and both death records being the parents.

Do you have their deaths already?

Hibernian.

Yes those are the censuses i am working from. The 1871 census is right as my grandmother was born that that address in1872. but that census only Hugh and Sarah were born in Ireland, and the children in England.

The 1881 census which i think is the same family allowing for the ages being transcribed wrongly. It states Hugh,Sarah and son Michael born in Ireland.

Eileen

Eileen

My second post as follows......

Here is 'a' Larkin family on the 1871 census where the parents are Hugh and Sarah with son Michael aged 11. I'm NOT suggesting its the same family.

The parents' ages are different and there are two children older than Michael on this census.

Also, the children's names do NOT tie in between the two census records so I am just asking whether this might be the same family. Note that children in Irish families get called different names than their birth names, sometimes called by their second Christian names or nicknames.

This census is also in Kimberworth which seems a bit of a coincidence.

I just want to get a feel for the family we are looking for and I will take a look at the Irish records for you.

If these are completely wrong census records I will delete from the thread to stop confusion.

Name: Hugh Larkin
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: Kimberworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Masbrough St John
Town: Masbrough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image
Registration district: Rotherham
Sub-registration district: Kimberworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 145
Household Members: Name Age
Hugh Larkin 45
Sarah Larkin 49
Kate Larkin 15
Sarah Larkin 13
Michael Larkin 11
Sam Larkin 7
Edward Larkin 5
Lanny Larkin 10 months
Polly Larkin 3

Eileen

Is this the census record you are using when referring to Hugh Larkin, married to Sarah and their oldest child, Michael, born 1861 in Ireland?

This is the 1881 census for Kimberworth in Yorkshire.

On this same census (1881) Sarah's age is listed as 40 and Michael's as 20 which ties in with you advising us that Michael was born in 1861.

Name: Hugh Larkin
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Kimberworth
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 2 Orchard Yard
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Quarry Lab

Registration district: Rotherham
Sub-registration district: Kimberworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Hugh Larkin 50
Sarah Larkin 40
Michael Larkin 20
Thomas Larkin 18
Edward Larkin 16
Mary Larkin 14
Margaret Larkin 8
John Larkin 12

See my next post for more information.

Eileen..Where were the family in England...? Quite often you find other members a of family or extended family around the same area..."some" do give a clue to place of Birth on the Census.I hope the Church comes through with some info. many PPs. wrote everything on the Register others nothing..!!!

ErinGoBraugh.

Thank you for your suggestion of Baptism registers. I have spent most of the morning trying to find the phone number of the church the children would have been baptised.Found the number and spoke to someone they said they would ask someone to phone me later. (fingers crossed)

Eileen

Fiona

Thank you for your reply i know what you mean about names being spelt
different. So i am going to send for the birth certificate of one of the other children to see what mothers maiden name was.

My other Granny's had her birth registered as Mulloy, but her marriage certificate says Malloy. But she said her name was Molloy.

EIleen

Eileen...Sarah's maiden name could also have been Doolan..or Toolan its not uncommon for names to be mistranscribed or totally distorted..if you know where the child born in England was Baptised it may be worthwhile checking Sarahs maiden name through the Baptismal Register...also dont assume that the "first" child on the Census was the eldest there may well have been children born before and died...Sarah and Hughs marriage may have taken place years before or even after the children were born....
Where and when did you locate them on the Census....?

Dear Eileen, Firstly, I joined the Irish Family History Foundation site also. 5 euro is alot of money when you don't get what you're looking for but it's great when you do find something! I find that it's so easy to click on a button and get a cert you could end up spending alot of money.I'm sure it will be helpful to you when you can pinpoint exactly where your Larkins and Hoolans come from.
Secondly, Hoolan, I'm sure is Holohan or Houlihan. Never met a Hoolan but know loads of Holohans etc. I'm sure you are correct in assuming that both surnames are catholic. I live in S.E Ireland and I know of Larkins also.I had a look on the IGI website and wonder if your family were from York? If so, according to the Irishway, in the past , of naming children the first child should be called after the paternal grandfather. Have you been on the Irishtimes.com website? They will give you a list of counties for the Griffiths Valuation (1848-1864) where both surnames can be found. Don't forget to try both Hoolan and Holohan. I think the link is www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname. Good luck in your search and let me know if I can be of any help with the Irish record side of things! Regards, Fiona

Hello Keith.

Thank you for the information about the Hoolan's listed in Kings County.

Thanks to you and Claire for the information you have given me.
I now have somewhere to start my search.

Eileen

Eileen on the irish 1911 census all the Hoolans are in Kings county ..i know they are not yours but to keep for future ref Keith

Eileen i have found a marrage for a Hugh Larkin for 1860 in co Sligo .but no Sarah Hoolan ..there are other Hugh larkins married just before and just after 1860 in different counties ..lots of Michael Larkins born around the time you state in different counties ..the only way you can find out who Hugh Larkin married in 1860 is pay 5 euros for look up ..if it is the wrong one you have paid for no info ..not all counties are on line yet so may be Sarah was married in one of those counties .the only three Sarah hoolans i can find were born in 1850s so that is not her none online as yet by that name of the age to marry it looks as though the person Hugh Larkin married is not searchable yet) keep looking as different counties come online it cost nothing to look at the entrys ..good luck regards keith

Keith

Thank you for your input i am sorry you was disappointed, but i know what you mean about paying 5euros for something you already know.

But i know nothing about my Irish ancestors not even which part of Ireland they originated from so i would be pleased to find anything

Eileen

Hello Claire.

Thank you for the information on Hugh Larkin i will try and see if i can tie any of them up to my family. ( i live in hope )

When i sent for my grandmothers birth certificate it stated mothers maiden name Hoolan.

I have looked at family trees on this and ancestry and there are very few trees with Hoolan so i was hoping to find something with it not being a common name.

Sorry it's taken so long to answer you but the cat brought a shrew in then did a runner, so it was left to me and a neighbour to catch it .

Eileen

hi i used iy to get my gggranddads birth info .for 5 euros it said his name (already known) his fathers name(already known ) his mothers name but no maiden name for mother .and christened in church of ireland Mothell 1835 ..so all info i got for 5 euros was mothers first name and christened in mothell ..not even the name of the church no adress for church or family ..it is a good idea to go on the samples of different certs before you buy ..i personally was quite disappointed ..with info for the price ..but i am sure there are other cases were it has been worth every penny ..if there are 5(eg john smiths) listed in the area you want and around the same date .it would be difficult to know if you have the right one ...i was lucky in the fact my gggrandad had an unusual name ... maybe a good idea if people who had paid for info put the names on a site then others looking for same name could ask for details of that name (if it is legal)not sure ..maybe somebody could advise me on this my gggrandad was surname Price .this is an unusuall surname for Ireland but there are a few ..regards Keith

Elaine,

You can pay by Visa debit card.

Regards

Claire

Hello,

I have found 6 Michael Larkin's...

1 for Co. Galway
1 for Co. Kildare
1 for Co. Roscommon
1 for Co. Antrim
and 2 for Co. Kilkenny

I have also found two Hugh Larkin's getting married around 1860..

1 in 1858 in Dublin and 1 in 1864 in Co. Antrim; however I can't find any Sarah Hoolan's.

Is it Hoolan for sure?

Claire

Hello Claire

I'm sorry i don't know the county in Ireland. Most of the information i have is from the English census or from ordering birth certificates for those born in England.

Eileen

Dear Eileen,

Do you know which county in Ireland?

Claire

Hello Claire.
Hugh Larkin married Sarah Hoolan there eldest son Michael was born in Ireland about 1861 so i think they married about 1860 there next child was born in England 1863

Eileen