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Hi Sue
Yes this is the same child
Its all weird to me,
If you look at the 1901 the other girl Florence also belongs to William Scaife but was born in Swinton, William 1895 is William Cane son.
William Cane and Elizabeth also lost two little boys both named Wallace Augustine one in 1896 and one in 1896
Julie
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This certainly is a puzzle, to say the least!
Has had my head in a tizzy all morning trying to fathom it out, LOL!
Well, having read and re-read all the info, it does look as though William Cane and William Scaife are the same person, although I don't know how we'd prove that 100%. All I can do is give you all the evidence that makes me lean towards that theory...
The thing that throws a spanner in the works is the marriage cert of William to Bertha in which he states his fathers name as being Thomas. If William Cane was William Scaife then he surely would have put his father's name as William (we know William Scaife's father was a William from the1871 census) unless he really was hiding the fact that he was a Scaife so gave a false first name for his father too on his marriage cert. Maybe he just didn't want anybody finding out who he really was.
Trying to look at this realistically - what are the chances that you'd find two men, both Williams, born Bethnal Green London in 1865/66, both living in Yorkshire at the same time, both join up with the Yorkshire Regiment at the same time, both have the same occupation of Postman and BOTH end up marrying/living with the same woman - Elizabeth Walters!!!
Come on - it's highly unlikely isn't it?
Surely what happened is that for some unknown reason, William Scaife changed his name to William Cane when entering the South Yorkshire Regiment.
The fact that we see two entries on the 1891 census - one for a Wm Scaife at home with wife Elizabeth and the other for Wm Cane at the barracks does NOT mean they can't be the same person under two different names. It's very possible that his wife put his name down on the enumerator's form (quite possible he even spent time there that day) and then he could have been entered on the form at the Barracks for that night too.
It's not impossible - I have a couple of incidents like this on my own tree where various women from one family are listed as being at their parent's home and at the same time they are listed in their own homes with their husband!
Ok - so bearing that in mind, now let's look at the birth cert of the child - William Bertram Cane 1895.
It states his mothers name as Elizabeth Cane formerly Walters. Now, if she HAD been a wife of a Mr Scaife prior to being a Cane, the birth cert would have (or should have) noted this. It would have said something like Elizabeth Cane, late Scaife (if she'd been widowed), formerly Walters.
The other thing I've checked is deaths for William Scaife between 1891-1895 (reason I checked up to 1895 was thinking that if Elizabeth was with William Cane at that point - and she must have been in order to have had a son born 1895 named William Bertram CANE) - anyway, there isn't one listed in the whole of the UK. So if there WAS a William Scaife what happened to him if he didn't die and doesn't appear on the 1901?
I think I've exhausted just about all my lines of reasoning that I can think of on this one.
In a nutshell, I think William Scaife changed his name to William Cane... unless anyone can spot any flaw to that theory LOL
Athena
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Not sure if you already have this marr entry for Florence, might come in handy for your files. Born to William Scaife but married as Florence Cane:
Name: Florence E Cane
Year of Registration: 1917
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's Surname: Speight
District: Rotherham
County: Derbyshire, South Yorkshire, Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9c
Page: 1295
Athena
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So presumably this is William Scaife's (possibly cane's) birth cert then?
Name: William Isaac Scaife
Year of Registration: 1865
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Bethnal Green
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 241 (click to see others on page)
Sue
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Anthea and Sue
Thank so much i have spent hours on this and someone else coming to the same conclusion as me helps,
I said earlier that i thought William had something to hide now i am convinced ,
He has to be William Scaife,
The marriage details i didn't have and i think i will send for that cert maybe it could help as she remained in Rotherham I sort of though her aunt who was there in 1901 may have taken the girls but it seems not
Roll on the 1911 census
Again thank you for your help on this mystery
Julie
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