Genealogy Chat

Hello,

I've been trying to find the GRO number for a marriage certificate that I'm after.

According to familysearch.com the marriage took place in 1874 in Burnley, but the problem is the information is only submitted.

I've been trying to confirm the details on other websites but no luck.

Does this mean the marriage never took place?

Where did familysearch get the information from?

Any help would be appreciated.

Many thanks

Simon.

Please post some names so that we can look for the couple.

Thank-you Gwyn,

The names are Elizabeth Whitaker born 1853 and George Proctor born 1849. Both born in Burnley.

The marriage supposedly been in 1874 in Burnley.

Many thanks

Simon.

Nothing obvious found so far.

Have you found Elizabeth in 1871?
....I found this and wondered if she was married to someone else before George ?

Marriages Mar 1870

Broxup Robert Burnley 8e 245
Hebden Mary Burnley 8e 245
Preston Richard Appleton Burnley 8e 245
Whittaker Elizabeth Burnley 8e 245

I believe she was married once only.

I know that George Proctor remarried on the 28th May 1892 to a Jessie Johnstone from the Orkneys again in Burnley.

Simon.

There are several marriages on freebmd where the names have not all been transcribed.
I have to leave now but perhaps someone could check if George is a match for any of these.

Marriages Dec 1871 (>99%)
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Whitaker Elizabeth Burnley 8e 358

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Marriages Dec 1872 (>99%)
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WHITAKER Elizabeth Burnley 8e 382

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Marriages Dec 1874 (>99%)
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Whitaker Elizabeth Ellen Burnley 8e 324

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Marriages Mar 1875 (>99%)
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Whitaker Elizabeth Burnley 8e 269

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Marriages Sep 1876 (>99%)
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Whitaker Elizabeth Ann Burnley 8e 309

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Marriages Jun 1878 (>99%)
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WHITAKER Elizabeth Burnley 8e 391

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Marriages Mar 1881 (>99%)
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WHITAKER Elizabeth Burnley 8e 341

Thank-you Gwyn

Simon.

The IGI entry is a submitted one,,,,so has not come with an actual parish register film roll number as transcribed from the PR's ,,,,,this could be someones un-certified guess work of events .,,or the marriage didint take place in England?

plus it gives a death for Elizabeth or George ,as 14 th march 1900..?

Looking for George Proc*r in Lancashire born between 1844 and 1854 identifies just one individual born in Burnley in the 1851 census (stepson), 61 (boarder) and 71 (soldier in Hampshire barracks). I wonder if his marriage was an Army marriage not in the UK?

Interestingly, the 1851 entry is full of Whitakers:

Name: George Procter
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Burnley, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Whalley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Burnley
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Burnley
Sub registration district: Burnley
ED, institution, or vessel: 6a

Household schedule number: 48
Household Members: Name Age
George Procter 4
Eliza Whitaker 33
James Whitaker 37
James Whitaker 12
Mary Whitaker 13
Thomas Whitaker 9
Whitaker Whitaker 7

The trouble with the submitted records is they often base them on either the age of one or both of the partners - and tend to guesstimate it at 25 or so. Or they base it on the year before the child they are researching - which is not usually very helpful.

Tracking them down in censuses would help.

Which child of theirs are you researching? When was the child born?

Thank-you everyone for the help.

Much appreciated

Simon

Hello Jill,

I'm trying to find the GRO index number for a marriage between Elizabeth Whitaker and George Proctor, so I can order it.

The trouble is I can find a submitted record on IGI, saying that they married in 1874 in Burnley, but no other website has any records at all for them.

Simon.

Hi Simon
There is this pedigree resource file also on familysearg.org. It lists a submitters name.
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George Proctor Compact Disc #128 Pin #4730343 Pedigree
Sex: M

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Event(s)
Birth: 11 Apr 1849

Burnley,Lancashire,England
Death: 14 Mar 1900



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Parents
Father: Thomas Proctor Disc #128 Pin #4730103
Mother: Susanna Chadwick Disc #128 Pin #4730104

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Marriage(s)
Spouse: Elizabeth Whitaker Disc #128 Pin #4731009
Marriage: 1874
Burnley,Lancashire,England

Spouse: Jessie Johnston Disc #128 Pin #4730501
Marriage: 28 May 1892



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Notes and Sources
Notes: None
Sources: None

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Submitter
Leland MOON
1249 North 160 East American Fork, Utah 84003

Going on this record above, this looks like George in the 1851 census....
Name: George Proctor
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Susannah
Gender: Male
Where born: Cliviger, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Cliviger
Ecclesiastical parish: Holme St John
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Burnley
Sub registration district: Burnley
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a

Still can't find a marriage record though.....

His birth is as Procter

Births Jun 1849
PROCTER George Burnley 21 243

Rose

There's no sign of the marriage because George moved to the US sometime in the 1850s.

1880 US Census Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Race Age Birthplace Occupation Father's Birthplace Mother's Birthplace
George PROCTOR Self Male W 30 ENGLAND Farmer ENGLAND ENGLAND
Elizabeth PROCTOR Wife Female W 20 ENGLAND Keeping House ENGLAND ENGLAND


Source Information:
Census Place American Fork, Utah, Utah

Rose

George is in Utah in 1860:

1860 United States Federal Census
about Susanna Procter
Name: Susanna Procter
Age in 1860: 4
Birth Year: abt 1856
Birthplace: Utah
Home in 1860: Lake City, Utah, Utah Territory
Gender: Female
Post Office: American Fork
Value of real estate: View Image
Household Members: Name Age
Thos Procter 42
Susanna Procter 35
Margt Procter 14
Geo Procter 12
Susanna Procter 4
Elisth Procter 1
Jane Procter 1

Rose

Same family as Clegg in 1870. Looks unlikely George married in Burnley doesn't it?

1870 United States Federal Census
about Susanna Clegg
Name: Susanna Clegg
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Age in 1870: 45
Birthplace: England
Home in 1870: American Fork, Utah, Utah Territory
Race: White
Gender: Female
Value of real estate: View Image
Post Office: American Fork
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Clegg 47
Susanna Clegg 45
George Clegg 21
Susanna Clegg 13
Jane Clegg 11
Elizabeth Clegg 11
Ann Clegg 7

Rose

Hi Jackie and Rose, thanks for this, it was very helpful in understanding a little more about submitted entries on the IGI. I see that there were 4 people submitting pedigree resource files, some cautiously saying that he married Elizabeth Whitaker of Burnley, but others stating bluntly that the marriage occurred in Burnley.

(It means I've now managed to extract more info from the LDS site about a Kent parish register that has not yet been not extracted, but possibly seen by a submitter since the batch has info about many more people with the same surname. That'll keep me busy cross-checking to the census! Many thanks)

Apologies for the delay.

Thanks everyone for the information, but I'm afraid I have the info already.

I know that George Proctor went to American Fork when he was young with his family to set up a farm, but did he come back to England on a regular basis to marry?

I'm curious about the 1880 US Census when the couple are together in American Fork Utah, giving Elizabeth age as only 20 which will put her birth year has 1860 not has I believe as 1853. Is it the right couple?

In the 1870 US Census for some reason the transcriber put Clegg which was the previous family on the census, not Proctor down which is misleading.

The thing is did Elizabeth Whitaker marry George Proctor if I can't verify the marriage?

Thanks to everyone with the help with the query.

Much appreciated

Simon.

Given the distances involved it seems very unlikely he would travel back to England. He is just a farmer. Travel from Utah would be a huge undertaking.

That, and there' s no marriage for him in the UK all points to him marrying in Utah.

I have to say, at least 90% of the user submitted records on IGI I've seen are very inaccurate.

Rose