Genealogy Chat

If someone had a child and gave it up for adoption does any one know which names would actually be on the birth cert? would it be the biological parents or the adoptees?..And as far as births registered what applies in this instance also? Is it a legal requirement to have the birth mother on the B.D.M register and the birth certificate..as well as the biological father..how does this work? Thank you..would appreciate any knowledge on this..

Hello, as the adoption usually takes place some time after the birth the natural parents are on the birth cert.

I was searching for someone and when I got her birth cert the mother was shown but no fathers details.

if the mother and father were not married, his name would not be on the certificate ............... unless he had gone with her and agreed that it should be on there.

A child is registered in their birth name. The original birth certificate has the name of the mother and possibly father (if named) If the birth parents are not married but he is named on the birth certifcate... the child will be listed in the birth register in both the mother's name and the father's name.
After a child is adopted, the child is then placed on the Adopted Children Register (ACR) in their adoptive name. This register is not for public view... however, the index to the ACR used to be available at the Family Records Centre in London, but I read that it was closing and moving all records to somewhere else.
Cheers Gerry

thank you all for replying, is is very interesting..you guys really know your stuff! : )

By the way which cert, do you mean the original one or the adoptive one?
Also adoption was did not become legal till 1927 so anything before that was private.

Gerry is that true ? and idea where ?

As an extra to that info - all adopted children (certainly after 1927) will be registered under their birth name and will have 'adopted' written on the right side of their birth certificate. I have this on my great grandmother's little sister's birth certificate from 1924. Once the child has been adopted they are usually issued with a birth certificate under their adopted surname with the names of their adoptive parents on.

I certaintly haven't ever heard of a birth certificate without a mothers name on - but if a child was illegitimate then the father's name would not be given unless he came along and made a 'statutory declaration' that he was the father. Of course if they were married then both names would be on.

Some adoptions after 1927 were also arranged privately and there may be solicitors records relating to the arrangement, and it is always worth contacting the local court that might have overseen any legal procedings regarding an adoption. Be aware though that due to the sensitive nature of adoption that most agencies will not divulge information if you are not the adoptee.

The Adopted Children Register used to be available to search on thegenealogist.com but it was removed.

Hello Iris,
My Mother was Adopted in 1921, before the Adoption Act of 1926/27 and I have her Birth Certificate with both Biological Parent's names included and they were Married, her Birth was recorded with the names they gave her.
Ellen.

my dilemma is very far fetched..and has just come to light the last week, since my mothers passing..I have found out my mum was full term witha a baby..she was living with someone(whom she later married, for near 25yrs)..she disappeared for 5 days in November 1983..and returned with no baby..she never would discuss it with her husband to be..but not being married at time..could she have put his name down?...or would she revert back to previous maiden name..?..I have sinced looked up births for that time..(because the father has an unusual name..it appears only once that year)..its all very complex..any help?..and if my curiousity is so..can I request a birth cert..to find out the parentage on it before adoption..? thank you..x

Hi,

What is on the birth entry? pm the details and I will take a look.
If they where not married, and he did not go with her, then she would not have been able to name the Father, you say this happened in 1983, then I would order the birth cert, this can give you some more info, it will at least tell you the Birth Mothers full name so you can see if it was you Mother, it should also give where the baby was born, and the address she gave as home at that time.

Have you checked the Oct - Dec quarter for your mothers maiden name also ?

Remember that, to order a birth cert from 1983 you will need full details and not just the birth name and GRO reference as their is a 50 year rule.

Roy

Basically Iris you are looking for your older brother or sister/possibly half bro or sister. You say in your message 'could she revert back to her maiden name......?.'
The way you put it, sounds as if she was married to someone else, and then married the 'missing' baby's father whom she had been living with, later. Apologies if I have got this wrong.
Anyway, if she was still married to someone else, then she could have put her previous married name and husbands name down. I know this because my birth mother did this for one of my younger half brothers. I got my proper birth father's name as he registered me. My younger half bro. was not his child, nor was he the child of my mother's marriage, but she was still married so put her soon to be ex-husband's name on the birthcert.
This caused a lot of problems later in my younger half-bro's life, as he thought he had found his father, and hadn't.

I did not phrase it correctly..I am the first born..(1968)..She married my dad..(Vardy)..She had a subsequent child by same father..they divorced...She had 3 other children..( not sure if she married..she may of.."saunders"..)..we were all taken into care in the late 1970s..early 80s..in that time..she met her last partner in 1981..ish..they married in 1984(stayed together for 25 years)..In the interim..1983..she was full term with a baby..but she was not married to him at time..She either lost this baby..or gave it up for adoption..She went AWOL for 5 days..The fact that she had previously been married..plus fact divorced..I can not see where the relevence in putting her maiden name for the register would apply..to me..It would make sense in putting the fathers name down..(confused?!!@~#!!)..I am..lol...For years I was known as Saunders..along with my syblings..it wasnt until I had to apply for a passport back in 1988..that I was in fact "Vardy"..I changed this by deedpoll at time so that we were one of the same..It is no wonder we come across probs in finding our true heritage/ancestors..so many factors influencing..names etc..marriages..divorces..deedpolls..marriages on top of divorces..!!.

Iris
The truth is your mother could have called herself what ever she liked... my mother changed her name and I am registered under her new name.
I would check the birth index for births under ALL the names you know your mother had been known by.
Good luck with your search.

Sheila

All the files are being moved across to the The National Archives in Kew.

Hopefully the index to the Adopted Children Register is still made available.

Cheers Gerry

Hi List
Can anyone help with my adoption question as it is the complete oposite of the one here.
I know the adopted of the child and the name of the couple who adopted her around the late 1930's or early 1940's. Is there anyway of finding the childs name and parentage before adoption?
Thanks
Donna

Donna - it can be difficult to find out that information if you are not the adoptee as it is usually only the adoptee who can request their adoption file/original birth certificate.

Hi Donna
Often in the 30's 40's and 50's adoptive parents were given the original birth name of the child. They needed this information to fill in the application form to apply to the court for an adoption order. Also to register the child at a Dr's surgery.
If you haven't got the papers there is little chance of finding the original birth name of the adopted person.
Only the adopted person has the legal right to apply for the information.
Cheers Gerry

Hi Iris,
My mother was put up for adoption in 1944, In 1986 through social services, she tried to search for her birth family. She was told by s.s that all her adoption file had been destroyed in a fire at the court house and that they could search no further. My mother had her original birth cert with her name before adopt which she got through GRO on the cert was my grandmothers name place of birth name of child, (which was changed after adopt)fathers details left blank.
Two years ago I decided to try and find my moms birth fam i searched BMD index asked library in area of birth for any help of records to search. Somtimes i felt like a mad dog chasing my tail.At first i found a record of my moms aunt and her grand parents, 6 mnths after, i found my moms cous (they are now in reg contact) Cousin told mom she had half bruv and sis, but did not know whereabouts as family had lost contact many years b4, Sadly her mom and all seven aunts had passed.I carried on searching mainly now on genes sent many emails to find poss links many came back unsuccessful, However 2wks ago i recieved an email from a def link to my moms half sis, She is now eagerly awaiting the outcome.
Be it good or sad my mom says she does not regret any search as she now feels she has roots with a history a past a pressent and a future.
Good luck with your search, it may take a while but if you keep searching I'm sure you will find a link
Sue

It is funny how the stock answer about adoption files is always that "they were destroyed in a fire/bombing raid".

I eventually got mine but the following reasons were given during the 12 month wait;

---------
#1 Destoyed during an air raid;

Not sure how many air raids there were in Lincolnshire between 1966 and 2005, not many.

#2 There was never a court in the place i quoted

Funny that, the person i was speaking to was sitting in the very same building the hearing took place in...........or where they just a figment of my imagination??

#3 I wasn't adopted as there is no record

Well the GRO, my birth cert and my adoptive parents all contradict this "fact"

#4 I have no legal right to the file

Oh really.........i must have got the wrong end of the stick with all the GRO paperwork and meetings with Social Workers over the previous six months then!!


Now i know i'm prettty unique in some ways but boy oh boy i never knew HOW unique till that court official put me in the picture during that ten minute phone call.

Eventually i did get my file, all 106 pages!! I contacted the Lincs social services child welfare department who couldn't have been more helpful, they copied the documents, sent them to my local office and all within a week of first approaching them.


Glen