Genealogy Chat

Hi Ivy,
Lets just say I think I will sleep tonght!!!
Gill

Hi Gill,

Sorry, I hadn't read the thread carefully enough - you had mentioned looking at certificates from 1864 to 1867, and by the time I was on page 2 I had lost sight of fact that you had used the parents' names as checking points.

(hope son is safely stowed and all backs are still in working order!)

Hi Ivy,
Sorry been so long getting back, but we have been most of the day helping one of sons move house. I am guessing you mean the birth of William Arthur Smith, yes he was born 1857 in Shelton, Hanley (Marsh St) father James Smith & mother Elizabeth Smith(nee Taylor) I have the birth of Thomas Shenton father William & Eliza Shenton(nee Bennett) William is Enock's brother.
Gill

Hi Gill,

As Sue says, it can be tricky if the name on the marriage certificate is not the biological father. You have several birth certificates now - have you managed to link each of those birth certificates to a distinct different individual - either on the 1871 census, or to a death registration between the birth and 1871?

Back from next door and trying to get a 6 month old baby with nasty cold to get to sleep.

I think that the fact you have John with a father called Enoch on his marriage certificate plus a census with both parents, and knowing his parents married before John was born makes it look fairly likely that Enoch and Elizabeth are John's parents.

After all with earlier generations you can be lucky to get one document of proof so not being able to find John's birth registration may not be significant.

Working backwards the ones that need being careful about are the marriage certificates where stepfathers are named as father. My great grandmother had a half brother who used the surname of her father on his marriage details. I keep expecting to be contacted by his descendants and I'll have to tell them that the surname they are using isn't really theirs.

Sue
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Hi Sarah,
Yes thank's I know Staffs BMD. Alot of them are buried at Shelton st Mark, but unfortunatly I believe there are know headstone or lists of buriels at Shelton, I did ask a few years ago but may go back to them incase i have the wrong information. Thank's for your interest.
Gill

Hi Gill do you know where any of them maybe buried and if so could you go look to see if there are any clues on the headstones? This trick helped start me as the headstone of my nans had her parents 1st names on.

Plus have you used the website I'm putting on for Staffordshire BMDs? Hanley library give it me and it can be found by searching google. I've found some marriages and births (even the marriage of my dads uncle never thought would get hold of I couldn't find on freeBMD) but the site is not complete yet.

www.bmsgh.org/staffsbmd/index.html

Hi Joan,
It gives Enock Shenton as father,It looks as though Elizabeth had left James Smith around 1860 because on 1861 census James Smith is living alone at the same address that is on William A birth cert marsh st,Shelton. I have found Enock & Elizabeth "mistranscibed" as Sheldon living as man & wife a couple of streets away with William A ,4 and baby Enock who later dies a few months old.
Complicated aint it. lol

Good luck

Will check this thread for progress later!!!

Sue
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It looks like Thomas and sarah are Enoch's parents.

Elizabeth Enoch's wife had been married before...anfd had a son William Smith
I wondered if John T had been Smith...but the marriage was well before his birth.
What does it say on John T's marriage cert?
Joan

Got a few more minutes as neighbours not ready to go out yet! LOL

Just trying to get my head round the problem.
You have John with both parents in 1871 and then with mother in 1881.
Parents Enoch and Elizabeth married about 3 years before John was born and they'd had other children before his birth.

So two scenarios.......John is the son of the named parents in the census details or perhaps Elizabeth could have no further children after the two dead infants and they adopted John.

Do you know when Enoch died or if Elizabeth had any other children after John?

If John is not their biological child you are unlikely ever to find out who he was because it was unofficial and he could have been called anything previously.

However........I wonder if his registration was simply forgotten. Maybe the parents were under stress due to ill health or something. If Enoch were dying of whatever killed him then perhaps Elizabeth didn't get around to it.

Sue
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Thank's Sue I believe that is Enock Baptised at Buchnall, Though I think that record is added by a church member if I remember rightly. His parents were Thomas & Sarah but there is a very siml family in Fenton S-O-T. Thankyou for your interest.
Gill

Hi Gill
This looks the obvious one
Births Jun 1866 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SHENTON John T Stoke T. 6b 202


but that isn't the right one when you get the cert?
Joan

So we appear to have at least two Enochs.

There is this one who married as above

ENOCH SHENTON Pedigree
Christening: 19 JUN 1836 Lane End, Stafford, England

Father: JAS. SHENTON Family
Mother: ELIZA


Then a slightly older one
ENOCH SHENTON Pedigree
Male
:
Christening: 13 MAY 1832 Bucknall Cum Bagnall, Stafford, England
Parents:
Father: THOMAS SHENTON Family
Mother: SARAH


I've got to go out and babysit for neighbours so can't get back on computer till later.

If I were you I'd be doing a one name study of this lot and gathering all the Shentons. I'd make mini trees offline and merge them as links turn up.

It may be that you won't find Enoch's parents for certain but if all the Enochs turn out to be cousins you could jump over them and back a generation or so.

Good luck and I'll have another think later.

Sue
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Hi Barry,
Yes you are right I know but it gets so frustrating, someone else gives me a family name and I can find BMD'S census records in no time and here I am with my own family and get stuck half way through the 19th century. i will get over it lol
Gill

Thank's Sue but thats a different one could very well be related though

I don't know the area but could Enoch have been married twice or is this a different Enoch?

Batch M010381

ENOCH SHENTON

Parents:
Father: JAS SHENTON Family
Marriages:
Spouse: MARY ANN BARKER Family
Marriage: 13 NOV 1859 Barlaston, Stafford, England

Husband Age at Marriage: 23
Wife Age at Marriage: 21


Sue
x

Sue ,yes 1863 Enock Shenton married Elizabeth Smith widow maiden name Taylor. What I don't understand is they had two sons before John who were both registered and Baptised but sadley died in infancy, so I don't understand why they didn't do the same for John who survived. I do have Enock from 1841 through on census, but have search all Hanley parishes can't find any marriage for his parents.
I suppose I will never know who Johns parents were.
Gill

Oh rats........looks like Enoch married a Smith.

Batch M010114

ENOCH SHENTON Pedigree
Male Family

Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZABETH SMITH Family
Marriage: 06 APR 1863 Bucknall Cum Bagnall, Stafford, England

Sue
x

There is an Enoch Shenton a Beer retailer on this site in a parish directory.
http://www.caverswall.org.uk/people.html

Sue
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