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Thank you Argyll Gran. I will order that death cert as it seems most likely.
It would also account for why she is not on the 1891 Census
Regards
Mary
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I ordered the marriage and death certs for Harriet but unfortunately the death cert is wrong as that one was married to a John Martin and not a Thomas.
Regards
Mary
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Oh dear, that's a shame, Mary.
Back to the drawing board.
It is a very common name.
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When Thomas married Harriet, he was a Labourer and a Widower
Witnesses: Charlotte Martin and John Martin
They both gave their address as Shepperton Street, the 1871 census for which I have trawled and found no-one named Martin --or Baker.
It may well have been an address of convenience, to avoid paying for two sets of Banns
The groom had changed his occupation between marrying and filling-in the 1881 census
Has any attempt been made to find Thomas's first marriage?
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Thomas Martin seems to be single in 1861 - a Brick Maker at Goddard Green, Cranbrook Kent, lodging with a family surname Hatcher
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In 1881, Thomas's birthplace is said to be Aberford, Kent.
There's an Aberford in Yorkshire, but no such place in Kent.
With that, and such a common name as Thomas Martin, and his change of occupation, it's probably impossible to find him before 1881,or his first marriage .
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They do seem very ellusive as does Harriet's first marriage to a Mr Baker. If only she had kept using her middle name of Burt, it might have made searching easier. I do appreciate all the help.
Regards
Mary
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Think the 1881 census is a transcription guess and should be Aylesford kent
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Yes that does make more sense. Thankyou.
Regards
Mary
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EDIT re this post -
I thought this might have been Thomas Martin with his first wife (and I seem to remember someone else suggested this family earlier, but they have deleted their post) - but although this Thomas has many similarities to Harriet's husband, this one emigrated to Australia and was still married to Emma in 1891.
However, I'll just leave this for elimination purposes.
___________________
Thomas was a brickmaker in 1881, when with Harriet.
Possibly Thomas and first wife??
Emma Mortimer [ NB - MARTIN on image ]
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Emma Mortimer
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: 1839
Relation: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: Bexley Kent England
Civil parish: Aylesford
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Malling
Sub-registration district: Aylesford
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 42
Piece: 915
Folio: 46
Page number: 9
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Thomas Mortimer 36 Head - Grays, Essex; labourer on brickfield
Emma Mortimer 32 Wife - Crayford
George Mortimer 11 Son
Edward Mortimer 8 Son
Henry Mortimer 5 Son
The four children below have been included in the family per the Ancestry (mis)transcription - but the family above are on page 9 of the Census book, and the children below are on page 12, so a different family:
Alice Martin 13 Daughter
Julia Martin 12 Daughter
Thomas Martin 9 Son
Clara Martin 7 Daughter
Thomas Martin
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Thomas Martin
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Relation: Head
Estimated Birth Year: 1835
Where born: Crayford, Kent, England
Civil parish: Aylesford
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Malling
Sub-registration district: Aylesford
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 107
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Thomas Martin 26 Head
Emma Martin 23 Wife
Louisa Martin 5 Daughter
George Martin 1 Son
Thomas Corbett 18 Boarder
William Hall 38 Boarder
Edward Eden 47 Boarder
Richard Smith 46 Boarder
In 1871, Louisa is a servant to Mary A Chapman in Malling.
Louisa Ann Martin
in the England & Wales, Christening Index, 1530-1980
Name: Louisa Ann Martin
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 26 Oct 1856
Christening Place: Crayford, Kent, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: Thomas Martin
Mother: Emma Martin
George Thomas Martin
in the Bexley, Kent, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1925
Name: George Thomas Martin
Baptism Date: 27 Nov 1859
Baptism Place: Crayford, Kent, England
Chapelry: St Paulinus
Parish as it Appears: Crayford
Father: Thomas Martin
Mother: Emma Martin
MARTIN, LOUISA ANN mmn JACKSON
GRO Reference: 1856 S Quarter in DARTFORD UNION Volume 02A Page 205
MARTIN, GEORGE THOMAS mmn JACKSON
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 250
MARTIN, EDWARD mmn JACKSON
GRO Reference: 1863 M Quarter in MALLING Volume 02A Page 419
MARTIN, HENRY WILLIAM mmn JACKSON
GRO Reference: 1865 S Quarter in MALLING Volume 02A Page 412
Dartford reg district includes Crayford.
Thomas Martin
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Thomas Martin
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Brother
Gender: Male
Where born: Crayford, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Crayford
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Dartford
Sub-registration District: Bexley
ED, institution, or vessel: 4a
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 154
Piece: 1607
Folio: 263
Page Number: 38
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Martin 22
Ann Martin 20
Thomas Martin 16 - brickyard labourer
Harriott Martin 13
Edward Martin 11
Sarah A Martin 1
Marriages Jun 1856 (>99%)
JACKSON Emma James Fulton Monk Lewisham 1d 869
MARTIN Thomas Lewisham 1d 869
Thomas Martin
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938
Name: Thomas Martin
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1835
Marriage Date: 8 Jun 1856
Marriage Place: St Nicholas, Plumstead, Greenwich, England
Father:
Geo Martin
Spouse:
Emma James Fulton Monk Jackson
Register Type: Parish Register
Thomas's occupation: Brickmaker.
The family emigrated to Australia at some point after 1871.
Lots of Australian records for them on Ancestry.
For instance, the son George:
George Thomas Martin
in the New South Wales, Australia, St Peters Cooks River Select Births, Marriages and Burials, 1839-1963
Name: George Thomas Martin
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 21
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1862
Birth Place: Kent, England
Residence Place: St. Peter’S
Marriage Date: 6 Jun 1883
Marriage Place: New South Wales, Australia
Father: Thos. Martin
Mother: Emma Jackson
Spouse: Hannah Sorten
Occupation: Brickmaker
Emma died in 1891:
Emma Jane Fulton Martin
in the Australia and New Zealand, Find a Grave™ Index, 1800s-Current
Name: Emma Jane Fulton Martin
Birth Date: 1839
Death Date: 1 Feb 1891
Death Place: Saint Peters, Inner West Council, New South Wales, Australia
Cemetery: Woronora Memorial Park
Burial or Cremation Place: Sutherland, Sutherland Shire, New South Wales, Australia
"Beloved wife of Thomas".
Thomas's remarriage:
Thomas Martin
in the New South Wales, Australia, St Peters Cooks River Select Births, Marriages and Burials, 1839-1963
Name: Thomas Martin
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 56
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1836
Birth Place: Kent, England
Residence Place: St. Peter’s. Crown Street.
Marriage Date: 27 Apr 1892
Marriage Place: New South Wales, Australia
Father: George Martin
Mother: Ann Watson
Spouse: Sally Upton
Occupation: Labourer
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Thankyou ArgyllGran for all that info and what a shame it isn't my one !
Regards
Mary
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