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No probs, Kath.

We've all had tough times, one way and another ;-) ;-)

Oh crumbs Erika....I had completely forgotten that I had that other thread Just last year.

Lock down has not helped my short term memory :-S

I'm sorry for making everyone go through all this again. I think there is just so much information but not much solid ground that I keep confusing myself. I think I may have to leave this again as my head is going round in circles.

Kath. x

Thanks AryllGran.

That is the correct 1871 census for my grandfather with the name Humble. I forgot to mention that the name change was also on the census just before his baptism. That is where his father George is said to be an unemployed painter. I have his records from the workhouse, his birth certificate and baptism record.

I bought the birth certificate of Mary Ann Gurney from the 1851 census named as niece but I think that is what she was as the mother's name on the certificate was Ann Dixon (unless this was a mistake which I realise c an and does happen.)

I can't find any other record for Barbara either until she appears on the 1901 census with George Anderson as Barbara Anderson living in Burbank Street. By this time they have moved back up north to West Hartlepool which is where the family stayed and I was born there.

I can find my grandfather with his father George on the 1881 census but again mother is named as Maria (I think maybe a mis-hearing of Mary A.) again in Burbank Street. I thought I had them in 1891 too but I can't find that at the moment.

I can find no marriage for George and Mary Ann or George and Barbara to help with the search.

Kath. x

The previous - quite lengthy - thread

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1392825

Your grandfather in 1871:

John G Humble
in the 1871 England Census
Name: John G Humble
Age: 7/12
Estimated Birth Year: 1870
Relation: Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Southwark, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Camden
Town: Peckham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 238
Piece: 731
Folio: 23
Page number: 39
Household Members Age Relationship
G?? Humble 33 Head - Sunderland
Mary Ann Humble 24 Wife - Sunderland
John G Humble 7/12 Son
John D Deacon 23 Lodger



Anderson
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1920
Name: Anderson
Gender: Male
Record Type: Birth
Birth Date: 25 Aug 1870
Birth Poor Law Union: St George the Martyr
Birth Place: St George the Martyr, Southwark, England
Father: G Anderson
Mother: Mary Ann Anderson
Register Type: Parish Register



ANDERSON, JOHN GEORGE mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in SAINT SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 58


Mary Ann and George do not seem to have married .

Noting that your grandfather's mother is variously named as Mary Ann Dixon, and Barbara, does seem to point to the Gurney family, who had daughters Mary Ann and Barbara.

Although in 1851, Mary Ann Gurney and William Gurney are listed as niece and nephew of Jane, Mary Ann appears to be a daughter:


GURNEY, MARY ANN mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 315

Possibly William's birth ???

DIXON, GEORGE WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 274



1911 for John George Gurney, which you mention (birth posted earlier):

John Gurney
in the 1911 England Census
Name: John Gurney
Age in 1911: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Sunderland, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Offerton Painshaw
Country: England
Street Address: 1 Penshaw Staiths Penshaw
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Colliery Wastemanbdow
Registration District Number: 553
Sub-registration District: Houghton le Spring
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Piece: 30062
Household Members:
Name Age
John Gurney 60
Sarah Jane Gurney 56
Henry Gurney 20
James Gurney 16
John Hall Bobson 5

In 1901 he's with his wife and children in Hetton le Hole, and in 1891 he's with his wife and children in Bishop Wearmouth.


1881 -
John Gurners
in the 1881 England Census
Name: John Gurners
[John Gurney]
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Sarah Gurners
Gender: Male
Where Born: Sunderland, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Bishopwearmouth
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 16 Tyne Street (Rooms Over Stable)
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Journeyman Painter
Registration District: Sunderland
Sub registration district: South Bishop Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors:
Piece: 4994
Folio: 136
Page Number: 56
Household Members:
Name Age
John Gurners 30
Sarah Gurners 26
Joseph Gurners 8
Wm.H. Gurners 1
Eliz.A. Gurners 4
Frances Gurners 19 - sister
Emma M. Gurners 17 - sister



1871:

John G Gurney
in the 1871 England Census
Name: John G Gurney
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: 1851
Relation: Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Sunderland, Durham, England
Civil parish: Sunderland
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
Town: Sunderland
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: East Sunderland
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 214
Piece: 5013
Folio: 19
Page number: 31
Household Members Age Relationship
George Gurney 56 Head - Lambeth, Surrey - mariner, unemployed
Jane Gurney 47 Wife
John G Gurney 20 Son
George Gurney 18 Son
Robert Gurney 14 Son
Frances J Gurney 10 Daughter
Emma M Gurney 7 Daughter


By 1881, George, the father, is a widower in Lambeth Workhouse. (Jane's death in 1880 posted previously.)

I can't see any of the family in 1861.
I can't see any sign of Barbara at any time after 1851.

Just to be a bit more clear, this is the correct household I am looking at:-

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Minorca, Sunderland, Durham, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

Jane Gurney Head Married Female 27 1824 Mariners wife Morpeth, Northumberland, England
William Gurney Nephew Single Male 8 1843 Scholar Sunderland, Durham, England
Mary Ann Gurney Niece Single Female 5 1846 Scholar Sunderland, Durham, England
Henry Dixon Gurney Son Single Male 5 1846 Scholar Sunderland, Durham, England
Barbara Gurney Daughter Single Female 3 1848 Scholar Sunderland, Durham, England
John Gurney Son Single Male 1 1850 - Sunderland, Durham, England
Henry Dixon Visitor Married Male 29 1822 Ship wright Morpeth, Northumberland, England.

Although I was asking about Jane Gurney (nee Dixon) it is actually the daughter Barbara and the son John that I am interested in.

I think this John is the one who ends up in 1911 living in Painshaw, Durham and he was the informant on my great grandfather's death certificate describing himself as brother-in-law so I was hoping to find some evidence that his sister Barbara was the one who ended up as 'mother' to my grandfather (although I know that brother-in-law had other meanings back then).

I was just hoping to find other members of Jane's family that I could put into "search all member trees" to see if I could find a contact.

I have now found another Jane Dixon in 1841 who might be more likely to be the Jane from 1851 census, rather than the Jane with father Robert and mother Jane so I apologise for misleading you all with that information.

Sorry this is all a bit long winded.

EDIT - the baptism for Jane Dixon in Morpeth with father William and mother Ann could well be the right one but I have no way of confirming or denying this.

Kath. x

????

Baptism entry While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Northumberland
Place (Links to more information) Morpeth
Church name (Links to more information) St Mary the Virgin
Register type (Links to more information) Other Transcript
Baptism date 18 Apr 1824
Person forename Jane
Person sex F
Father forename William
Mother forename Ann
Father surname DIXON
Person abode Morpeth
Father occupation Hostler
Transcribed by Stephen Andrews
File line number

Name: Jane Gurney
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Death Registration Place: Sunderland, Durham, United Kingdom
Death Date: Jun 1880
Inferred Death Place: Durham, United Kingdom
Volume: 10a
Page: 336

Hi everyone - sorry I've been away from the computer for a few hours.

Before anyone spends any more time on this I should perhaps explain - but it's complicated.

My grandfather was John George Anderson born 25th August 1870 in the Mint Street Workhouse, Southwark.

Parents on the birth certificate were George Anderson and Mary Ann Dixon

However my grandfather's baptism record has him as John George Humble (?) father's name still George but mother's name Barby (presumably Barbara - as his mother was Barbara in all other records). I believe, but have no proof, that the name change could have been as a result of his father being unemployed and doing a moonlight flit. The Humble name was only used on the baptism and never again. My grandfather was always John George Anderson.

The reason for me looking at the Gurney family in 1851 is that on my grandfather's father's death certificate the informant was John Gurney who was described as brother-in-law. I know this John Gurney was in Painshaw, Durham in the 1911 census - the address is the same as on the death certificate of my great-grandfather. I have worked backwards with him and the only one that seems to fit is the John Gurney with mother Jane in Sunderland in the 1851 census.

As far as I know my great grandparents didn't have any other children and and I have a theory that the mother on my grandfather's birth certificate could have been
a relative of Barbara (Barby) who had the child in the workhouse and gave him up to George and Barbara. It's very difficult to prove any of this but every few years I have another go at it.

Thanks for all your help.

Kath. x

Eleanor Dixon
in the England & Wales, Christening Index, 1530-1980
Name: Eleanor Dixon
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 6 Aug 1831
Christening Place: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England
Father: William Dixon
Mother: Barbara Dixon


Ancestry suggests this may be William and Barbara's marriage:

Barbara Boag
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538-1973
Name: Barbara Boag
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 9 May 1817
Marriage Place: Heworth,Durham,England
Spouse: William Dixon

So the woman who married Gurney can’t be the one referred to in opening post, with father Robert

William Dixon
in the 1851 England Census
Name: William Dixon
Age: 62
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1789
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Barbara Dixon
Gender: Male
Where Born: Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Monkwearmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Sunderland
Sub-registration District: Monk
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 189
Piece: 2398
Folio: 29
Page Number: 51
Household Members:
Name Age
William Dixon 62 - Northumberland
Barbara Dixon 53 - Northumberland
John Dixon 23 - Jarrow
Eleanor Dixon 20 - Jarrow

Possibly her parents?

Note the mother's name is Barbara, and so is Jane's daughter's.

Wm Dixon
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Wm Dixon
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Gender: Male
Where Born: Durham, England
Civil Parish: Monkwearmouth
Hundred: Chester (East Division)
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
View image
Registration District: Sunderland
Sub-registration District: Monkwearmouth
Neighbors:
Piece: 299
Book: 3
Folio: 12
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Wm Dixon 50 - Durham, coal miner
Barbara Dixon 30 - not born in county
Elenor Dixon 12 - Durham
John Dixon 14 - Durham - coal miner

Just to be clear, Kath -

is the woman who married George Gurney the one you're interested in?

Name: Jane Dixon
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Marriage Date: 28 Feb 1850
Marriage Place: Monk-Wearmouth, Durham, England
Father:
William Dixon >>>>>>>>>
Spouse:
George Gurney
FHL Film Number: 1514568
Reference ID: 486


So not the right lady it looks like

For our reference:

Jane Gurney
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Jane Gurney
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where Born: Merpeth, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Sunderland
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Sunderland
Sub-registration District: East Sunderland
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 112
Piece: 2397
Folio: 17
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Gurney 27
William Gurney 3 - nephew
Mary Ann Gurney 5 - niece
Henry Dixon Gurney 5 - son
Barbara Gurney 3 - daughter
John Gurney 6 Mo - son
Henry Dixon 29 - nephew, Morpeth

All the children born in Sunderland


GURNEY, JOHN GEORGE mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1850 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 369

DIXON, BARBARA -
GRO Reference: 1847 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 323

DIXON, GILBERT HENRY -
GRO Reference: 1845 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 314

Have you got the cert for it’s info

Marriages Mar 1850
Dixon Jane Sunderland 24 265
Gurney George Sunderland 24 265

Thanks Maddie but that can't be the right Jane Dixon because the one I'm looking at is married (Jane Gurney) and living in Sunderland in the 1851 census.

Kath. x

from ancestry
Name: Janet Dixon
Gender: Female
Age: 0
Birth Date: 25 Feb 1827
Baptism Date: 18 Mar 1827
Baptism Place: , Sprouston, Roxburgh, Scotland
Residence Date: 1827
Residence Place: Sprouston, Roxburgh, Scotland
Father:
Robert Dixon
Mother:
Jenny Easton

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Glantlees, Alnwick, Northumberland, England

Robert Dixon Head
Married Male 59 1792 Agricultural labourer Scotland
Jane Dixon Wife
Married Female 52 1799 - Scotland
Jane Dixon Daughter
Unmarried Female 27 1824 Empd partly in agre & partly in domestic duties Scotland
Robert Dixon Grand son
- Male 1 1850 - Lesbury, Northumberland, England

but this maybe above birth
in the 1851 Scotland Census
1851 Scotland Census No Image
Text-only collection

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Name: Janet Dixon
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Female
Where Born: Sprouston, Roxburghshire
Parish Number: 807
Civil Parish: Sprouston
County: Roxburghshire
Address: Easter Softlaw
Occupation: House Servant
ED: 1
Page: 12
Household Schedule Number: 39
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1851_204
Household Members:
Name Age