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The marriage cert that I had from some years ago is the one from Underhill Street, Bridgnorth.

The other one that I got hold of yesterday from another Ancestry user says:

Page 142.

Marriages Soleminzed in the Parish of St Mary Magdalene Bridgnorth in the County of Salop in the year 1841

John McDonald of the City of Glasgow Bachelor

and Anne Doughty of this Parish Spinster

were married in this Church by Licence
this Twenty Second Day of
April in the Year One thousand eight hundred and Forty One



George Doughty and Mary Doughty the witnesses.

Then there's another 2 marriages listed underneath theirs.

Yes, looks like it.
Not the right John, then.

Possible 1841 for the Leith McDonalds?

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Coatfield Lane, Leith, Midlothian, Scotland
Household members (6 people)
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
James Scott McDonald Male 30 1811 Scotland
Colina McDonald Female 25 1816 Midlothian, Scotland
John Campbell McDonald Male 20 1821 Midlothian, Scotland
Margaret Gavin Female 35 1806 Scotland
Peter Gavin Male 6 1835 Midlothian, Scotland
Isabella McKean Female 15 1826 Midlothian, Scotland


Colina's baptism, her father is a merchant.

First name(s) Colina
Father's first name(s) Dan
Last name Macdonald
Father's last name Macdonald
Birth year 1812
Father Occupation Mercht
Birth date 01 Apr 1812
Page 118
Baptism year 1812
Archive Ref OPR 692/2/8
Baptism date 25 Apr 1812
Year Range 1805-1819
Place Leith
Item 3
County Midlothian
Record set Scotland, Parish Births & Baptisms 1564-1929
Country Scotland
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Mother's last name Scott
Collections from Great Britain, Scotland
Father Title Mr


1851 for this John Campbell McDonald so definitely not him.


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Summerfield, 6, Leith, Midlothian, Scotland
Household members (6 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John C McDonald Head
Married Male 32 1819 Commission agent (com & c) South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland
Jessie McDonald Wife
Married Female 25 1826 - England
Mary Scott McDonald Daughter
- Female 2 1849 - South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland
Peter Gavin Nephew
Unmarried Male 16 1835 Ship agents clerk South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland
Rachel Henderson Servant
Widow Female 26 1825 House serv Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Jessie Stewart Servant
Unmarried Female 14 1837 Childs maid South Leith, Midlothian, Scotland

Fmp has the original MC but there is no further information to what I posted on 24 Jan 2022 14:19.

Btw I've found most of this on fmp.

MCDONALD, THOMAS DOUGHTY
GRO Reference: 1842 M Quarter in BRIDGNORTH Volume 18 Page 21

This only means he is Thomas McDonald mmn Doughty not that Doughty is his middle name.

from https://www.gro.gov.uk a fantastic site that gives the mother's maiden name. You need to sign up to it but it is free to do these searches.


Daniel & Donald are sometimes, but not always, interchangeable in Scotland, because Domhnall, the Gaelic version of Donald, may be Anglicised as Daniel. For this reason we have classified these two names as "Lesser Synonyms" although it should be noted that these two names were fully synonymous in the 17th century and earlier.

https://www.whatsinaname.net and other sites such as https://www.tireegenealogy.com/Forenames.pdf

The transcription says his residence was in Glasgow at the time of marriage - it doesn't necessarily mean he was born there.

John McDonald
in the Shropshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1901
Name: John McDonald
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 22 Apr 1841
Marriage Place: Bridgnorth, St Mary Magdalene, Shropshire, England
Residence Date: 1841
Residence Place: Glasgow
Religion: Anglican
Spouse: Anne Doughty
Page number: 142
Reference Number: P41/A/3/4



And of course the other version, posted previously, says his address was Underhill Street, presumably Bridgnorth.

Unfortunately there's no image of the original to view on either Ancestry or FamilySearch, to check what's actually written.

I've just got a match with someone on Ancestry whose tree was private, but he gave me access. There was a second marriage cert between John and Anne Doughty in 1841. States that John was from City of Glasgow.

Need to work out how to do those searches on Scotlands People...

The records re Mary Scott and children are on Scotlands People.

Re death certs -
age stated at death depends on what the informant thinks is correct , and therefore isn't necessarily accurate.

Wow, so much info. Thank you so much for those replies, you clearly have more know how than I do with ancestral research. Going through your posts....

I never knew Daniel and Donald were interchangeable. Not heard that one before. A Scottish thing?

Yes, Anne was the daughter of John Doughty. And based in Bridgnorth. I hadn't entered their death dates into my tree yet, something which will be done in the coming weeks. I don't currently have a FMP subscription, so can't see newspaper archive at the moment, but huge thanks.

Thomas McDonald - I have ordered his birth cert only 2 days ago, so should have that by the weekend. I didn't know his middle name was Doughty, but there is a common theme there. My great-grandfather had that as a middle name and it has been passed down another line of the family (whom I've never met) to the present day.

Jessey Ann McDonald - I already have that one. She got married to a Hartshorn and they emigrated to Kansas and died at 30.

John Colin Campbell MacDonald - again, a common theme there that gets passed down the family. I have that baptism date. Hadn't seen that record of the Scots Guards. Where did you find that record?

Campbell as a middle name - That's been passed down the generations. Was always told that there was a MacDonald - Campbell marriage but have not found it yet. Always a bizarre combination for a name given what happened, but seems quite common. There is a possibility that John (1815/16) had Campbell as a middle name, but the results on Ancestry don't show any middle name. Not sure about the 1818 birth date as John's death cert of 1846 says that he was 30. Or did they round down the age on death certs and well as Census back then?

What site did you use for that last post? With the Mary Scott and the children?

Many thanks.

I had discounted this baptism because there 's a middle name - but in view of the mention of Campbell in Alviegal's post above, I wonder if this could be John?

Leith would fit with being a shipwright.

MCDONALD
JOHN CAMPBELL
DANIEL MCDONALD/MARY SCOT FR2906 (FR2906)
M
10/11/1818
692/1
40 526
Leith North


Possible marriage of parents - maybe ??

MCDONALD
DANIEL
MARY SCOTT/
02/07/1804
397/
20 142
Tulliallan


Siblings :

MACDONALD
COLINA
DANIEL MACDONALD/MARY SCOTT FR2599 (FR2599)
F
25/04/1812
692/2
80 236
Leith South


MCDONALD
JAMES WYLD
DANIEL MCDONALD/MARY SCOTT FR2906 (FR2906)
M
05/04/1817
692/1
40 526
Leith North


MCDONALD
CAROLINE
DANIEL MCDONALD/MARY SCOTT FR2906 (FR2906)
F
01/12/1814
692/1
40 526
Leith North


MCDONALD
GEORGE
DANIEL MCDONALD/MARY SCOTT FR3540 (FR3540)
M
01/10/1822
692/1
80 147
Leith North


MCDONALD
JEAN SCOTT
DANIEL MCDONALD/MARY SCOTT FR3505 (FR3505)
F
21/06/1820
692/1
80 80
Leith North


MCDONALD
MARY
DANIEL MCDONALD/MARY MCDONALD FR2568 (FR2568)
F
16/09/1810
692/2
80 179
Leith South

Just posting things as I find them. I know you already have all these.

MCDONALD, THOMAS DOUGHTY
GRO Reference: 1842 M Quarter in BRIDGNORTH Volume 18 Page 21

Baptism 10 Jan 1842, of New Road, father a bargeowner.


MACDONALD, JESSEY ANN DOUGHTY
GRO Reference: 1843 D Quarter in BRIDGNORTH Volume 18 Page 21

Baptism 23 Jan 1844, as above.


MCDONALD, JOHN CAMPBELL DOUGHTY
GRO Reference: 1845 J Quarter in BRIDGNORTH Volume 18 Page 22

Baptism 18 Feb 1846, of Underhill Street, father was a coal merchant. Baptised as John Colin Campbell McDonald.


First name(s) John C
Rank -
Last name McDonald
Regiment Scots Guards
Service number 1540
Archive Trustees of the Scots Guards Charitable Fund
Age 19
Series title Scots Guards Enlistment Registers, 1799-1939
Birth year 1846
Source Scots Guards enlistment registers
Birth town Bridge North
Record set British Army Service Records
Birth county Shropshire
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Birth country England
Subcategory Regimental & Service Records
Birth county as transcribed Shropshire
Collections from Scotland, Great Britain
Attestation year 1865


EDIT Details are 5'9", 19 yrs 11 months, fresh complexion, blue eyes, dark brown hair, pitted with small pox, grocer. Enlisted in London 22 Mar 1865 attestation 23 Mar 1865. He was Presbyterian and was discharged by purchase 23 Apr 1866.

His British Army Service Records just state he'd served 1yr 32 days, he paid £20 to be discharged and that he was 'a good and efficient soldier, trustworthy and sober.'

Not what you asked for but I wonder if this is how John entered the coal merchant business. If this is the correct Ann of course.

ANN DOUGHTY, 'One of the daughters of the late Mr.John Doughty'
RETURNS her sincere thanks to the friends of her late father, for the kind support he received during the time he carried on the trade of Coal, Salt, and Brick and Tile dealer in Bridgnorth, and respectfully begs leave to inform them, and the Public that she intends carrying on the Business in all it's Branches, on the premises occupied by her late father, and hopes, by every intention in her power to merit a continuance of their future patronage.
Bridgenorth 20 Jan 1841.


05 February 1841 - Shrewsbury Chronicle - Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England

Remember in Scotland, Daniel can sonetimes be interchangeable with Donald especially on earlier records. My ggrandfather is a prime example of this!!

I've signed up on Scotland's People and been doing some searches.

Impossible to know what may be relevant to me as no idea what part of Scotland they came from. Plus with such a common Scottish name.... I don't have a clue how to make any further progress down this line.

1841 rounded ages down to the ‘nearest 5’

Thanks for all those replies. Not sure why I hadn't attached the 1841 Census record to his entry on Ancestry. I have a feeling that I had seen that before. Was looking at this family line several years ago, then it got put on hold.

But the entry from St Mary Magdalene in Bridgnorth looks to be correct as coal merchant was his occupation. He was also a shipwright at one point.

So that confirms that he was born in Scotland. Given the fact that he was a shipwright, I guess he could have possibly worked on the River Clyde? I had always heard that we had a family link to Glasgow.

ErikaH - Good point you make there. Daniels birthplace is not on John's marriage cert. Sure I've seen the word Scotland somewhere..... But chances are that he was born there now that I know John was born there.

Weird how everyone's age ends in 0 or 5. A bit like winning raffle tickets.

I'll sign up on Scotlands People later.

Name: John Mar Donald
Marriage Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 22 Apr 1841
Marriage Place: Bridgnorth, St Mary Magdalene, Shropshire, England
Residence Date: 1841
Residence Place: Underhill Street
Religion: Anglican
Search Photos:
Search for 'Bridgnorth, St Mary Magdalene' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father:
Daniel Mac Donald
Spouse:
Ann Doughty
Page number: 38
Reference Number: P41/A/3/5


EDIT John MacDonald is a shipwright, his father is a manufacturer. Ann's father is a barge owner and is not marked as deceased. John signs McDonald.

His death. He lived in Underhill Street.

First name(s) John
County Shropshire
Last name McDonald
Archive refererence P41/A/4/3
Birth year 1816
Page 20
Death year 1846
Register type Burial
Death date ? ? 1846
Register date range 1844-1873
Age 30
Record set Shropshire Burials
Burial year 1846
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Burial date 07 Feb 1846
Subcategory Parish Burials
Burial place Bridgnorth, St Mary Magdalene
Collections from Great Britain, England
Denomination Anglican

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Severn Cottage, St Mary Magdalene, Bridgnorth, Shropshire, England

Household members (4 people)
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
John McDonald Male 25 1816 Scotland
Ann McDonald Female 25 1816 Shropshire, England
Mary Price Female 40 1801 Shropshire, England
Sarah Cane Female 20 1821 Shropshire, England


He was a coal merchant from Scotland if this is him.

His marriage. He was of the City of Glasgow.

First name(s) John
County Shropshire
Last name McDonald
Register date range 1813-1848
Marriage year 1841
Archive reference P41/A/3/4
Marriage date 22 Apr 1841
Page 142
Marriage place Bridgnorth, St Mary Magdalene
Register type Marriage
Denomination Anglican
Record set Shropshire Marriages
Residence Glasgow
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Spouse's first name(s) Anne
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Spouse's last name Doughty
Collections from Great Britain, England
Spouse's residence Bridgnorth, St Mary Magdalene


George and Mary Doughty were witnesses.

I don’t know where on the 1841 marriage cert it would have space for the father’s birthplace - as per OP