Find Ancestors

I can send a copy of the marriage cert if it help with signatures? I have just looked at all your replies and the army info does explain him not marrying till 1917 at aged 33.
Thanks for the look up of Nelly Hughes Hore, seems it is just a coincidence after all.
With regards to Alice's children from the reading marriage, I have the death record of Thomas Reading he died on the 3rd October 1964 aged 55.
George's grand daughter says her father Albert Hoare(born 1921) lived in Doughty Mews with parents George and Alice, along with the children from Alice's first marriage, 13 in all.

I have just looked at the copy of the marriage cert for George and Alice and there is no signature for either of them?? the copy only gives the names of the married couple at the bottom in the same handwriting as the rest of the cert and then cuts off, I can see there is something written on the next line under this, is that where their signatures should be?

Please ignore that last post, of course there is not actual signatures on the marriage cert.
Have any of you experienced researchers come across a brick wall like this before? I just can't see away of getting any further with George.
Going to look again at the children of (Nelly) Hoare and Barrett there are 7 of them born in Holborn from 1925, will have to find the marriage.

That family are an Ellen and William Barrett -- yet again no marriage

William born 6 . 11 .1898 hes a street trader flowers
Ellen born 4 . 10. 1899

Ellen / Ellie / Nellie ?????

they live in New North Street

Mavis

This looks like the marriage to louise Carter 1911.

Louise Carter of 22,little Edward Street born 1875/6
had Minnie Rose Hughes 1912 St Pancras died Cannock Staffordshire 1955 probate to Emily Louise Matthews wife of Albert Thomas Matthews.

Louise Hughes 1875-1951 Cannock Staffs
Emily louise Hughes nee Carter born 1914 Cannock Staffs.

There are 2 people on here with Minnie Rose Hughes 1912 and louise Carter.

Are his army records on Ancestry as I can't seem to find them.

Maryb.

They are on FMP Mary.

Dea x

George Hughes 1883 Cannock parents William Hughes 1839 Edgmund Shropshire a BRICKLAYER and Caroline.

1911 Barracks, St Margaret St John district Hanover Sq London
George Hughes Cook age 24 born Cannock
1st grenadier guards.

Maryb.

OOOOps looks as if I got carried away when I found that marriage of George Hughes 1911 -- yes his father was William and a bricklayer .

George Hughes Soldier in 1911 is the Cook of St James barracks born Cannock as Maryb states

a big SORRY so back now looking for George Hughes or Hore/Hoar/Hoare

Mavis :-( :-( :-(

This family 'does your brain in' doesn't it Mavis ?? ;-)

I have the grandchildren again today as it is still half term here but will pop in and out as I can........

Dea Xxx

I'm still thinking of that marriage 1911

1939 index
Louise Hughes is a widow 1939 born 22 sep 1875
Louise Emily Hughes [daughter] born 18 aug 1914 [Emily L Hughes]

not found a death for husband in Cannock

1939 index Staffordshire
George Hughes born 25 sep 1884
Louisa A Hughes born 8 march 1870 ??
2 non look at

been looking at George Hughes of Cannock Army record
joined Gren Guards 28th Aug1903 gave his age as 20 y 3 mth he had a
Tattoo on left wrist of "Lydia or Lydie" was 6 foot 1-1/4 inches tall
Discharged 15th July 1913 - Disconduct or Misconduct ?? forfeited Medals !!
names all the family starting with father William Hughes 4 brothers-4 sisters

George Hughes birth Sep Q 1883 Cannock 6b 481 parents William and Caroline she died sep 1885 42y

did he leave Louise and come back to London - change surname to Hoare ??
every thing seems to fit but birthday

Mavis :-0 :-0

Cannock as a birth place for George Hoare/Hughes does not seem right. Can someone help in finding the parents of the Barrett children(mothers maiden name Hoare) first child born Ellen W Barrett in June 1925 Holborn, followed by Thomas G, 1926. Winifred M, 1931. Eileen M, 1935. Maureen J, 1938. June M, 1939 (in Poole). Victor J, 1941. James M, 1943. Also Gladys M, 1920 St Pancras could be a possible child.. who was the mother of these children?? Surname Hoare and who was the father surname Barrett? Family members insist their mother was Nelly Hoare and related to George but can't be he's sister, far to old to have a child in 1943.
Will have to get the birth cert for Eileen M Barrett born 1935(as she is the only confirmed relative) and hope it takes me a step closer to George. Any other ideas??

I have already mentioned who they are on 21st Feb - did you not read it?


Ellen Hoare/ Barrett born 4th Oct 1899
William Barrett born 6th Nov 1898 street trader flowers

no Marriage


Mavis

Ellen/Ellie/Nellie could have been known as !!

Thanks Mavis
I did read it but was unable to find a relevant birth for either Ellen Hoare or William Barrett in 1898 and 1899 and find it hard to understand how they could have had at least 6 children with no marriage?
I am sorry if I appear to have not paid attention to your posts, but I really value all the replies and help given.
Nicky

Nicola,

There were just as many couples living together and having children then as there are now- perhaps more as it was almost impossible to get a divorce unless you were extremely rich so it is very possible that a marriage did not take place between them.

I have been looking at this family for Ellen but I haven't managed to prove it yet:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
118 Lucey Road Bermondsey, Bermondsey, London, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
William Hoare Head Married Male Currier 39 1872 Bermondsey
Transcription
Ellen Hoare Wife Married Female - 35 1876 Rotherithe
Transcription
Ada Hoare Daughter - Female School 12 1899 Bermondsey
Transcription
Ellen Hoare Daughter - Female School 11 1900 Bermondsey
Transcription
Lily Hoare Daughter - Female School 7 1904 Bermondsey
Transcription
Winifred Hoare Daughter - Female - 1 1910 Bermondsey.

There are several possibilities for an Ellen Hoare born at that time but looking at the births of some of the other siblings above I think that this one fits the bill ?

Births Dec 1898 (>99%)
Hoare Ada May St. Olave 1d 250


Births Dec 1903 (>99%)
HOARE Lily Agnes St. Olave 1d 221

?????
Births Mar 1900 (>99%) ***********************
Hoare Eliza Ellen St. Olave 1d 239


This is the marriage of her parents:

William Hoare - Currier
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Age: 25
Spouse: Ellen Charlotte Gavin
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Apr 1898
Parish: St James, Bermondsey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Hoare
Spouse Father: Alexander Gavin
Register Type: Parish Register


This is Ellen's death - note the birth date is 1 year out which is not unusual as the informant may not have been sure of her age:

Ellen Barrett
in the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007

Name: Ellen Barrett
Birth Date: 4 Oct 1900
Date of Registration: Jun 1981
Age at Death: 80
Registration district: London City
Inferred County: London
Volume: 14
Page: 0781

I am still working on this but will post more later.

Dea x

Dea, I looked at this one yesterday. Unfortunately, I had to rule her out.

She appears to have married Arthur Stephens in 1924. And is on the 1939 under the name of Ellen Eliza living in Surrey. Exactly the same birth date 30/12/1899


I've also ruled out the Ellen Ethel born 1900 in Paddington

Thanks Christina - I just found that marriage too :-(

Have you also ruled out this one?

Birth - Dec 1899:
Hoare Eleanor Louise Marylebone 1a 546

Dea x

EDIT: - Oooops - looking back through my copious notes I find I have already discounted her - she was born 10th Dec 1899 in Queen Charlotte's Hospital !

Dea x

Can't get my head round these not being connected.
Posted by Argyllgran census for 1891 on 1st page of thread.
the 3rd on for George 1884 to William 1850 Warwickshire and Ellen 1849 Ireland in Holborn.

All these people are in the same area as Doughty Mews,William is down as a labourer but on marriage for Margaret Hoare to George Lipscombe in 1891 he is a Bricklayer.
Ellen Hoare 1872 also married in May 1891 her dad William a Bricklayer,Ellen married Daniel Baptiste born @ 1870 died ? Camberwell 1893.

1901 Fisher Street/Red Lion Square
Ellen Baptist widow has children Charles Baptist 14/10/1894 and Winifred Baptist 1900.I can't find any records of these two children.With her is Eleanor Hoare born 1849 in Ireland it says she is Aunt but I think she is her mum.
No sign of the Baptist's after this!

Margaret and George lipscombe lived Gray's Inn lane and red Lion Square George Lipscombe was a Horsekeeper 1901.

Daniel Baptist had a brother Joseph who also was a Horsebreaker 1901/1911.

Back to George Hoare,he is put into Laystall Street School by William on 6/5/1895 date of birth given as 11/12/1885 no way can I find this record.

1903 Holborn Workhouse George Hoare age 18 = 1885

When viewing map all the addresses for the Hoare family ie Saffron Hill,Grays Inn,Red Lion Square etc are very close to Doughty Mews,too close for them not to be related in some way.

Maryb.

think this may be Wiliam Barrett -- note Mother is a Florist [Natural]

1911


Address
10 Benjamin St, Clerkenwell E C

Civil Parish
The Charterhouse St Sepulchre

Sub District
Holborn

Registration District
Holborn

Image Reference
RG14 - PN1213 RD14 SD1 ED17 SN220

Elizabeth Barrett 43 1868 Female Head Widow Saffron Hill Clerkenwell Florist (Natural)

William Barrett 13 1898 Male Son Francis Court Clerkenwell School

if Williams birthday at the end of the year then he would have been
14y and born 1899

birth
Dec Q 1899 Holborn 1b 680
----------------

that looks interesting Mary ------ Ellen Barrett was buried in Roman C grounds
as was George Hoare still think there may be some Irish connections some where

Mavis

William Hoare married Ellen Hines in Holborn 1869 1b 1071

Ellen Hines born 1849 Ireland, there is someone with a locked tree on ancestry with this couple.

Maryb.

I wonder if this is her in 1911 - Pastor St. Clerkenwell

Ellen Hoare widow 62 Charwoman Clerkenwell
Winifred Hoare Dau 26 Baker st. Kings X
Ellen Hoare Dau 9 Red Lion St. Holborn
Jinnie Hoare Dau 6 Red Lion St. Holborn

I can't find suitable births for these girls.


I see from the school admissions that Winifred went to school in Southwark in 1894
Signed in by George Lipscombe