Find Ancestors

Hello All its been 11 years since i have tried this and i am ropey to say the least. I am in search of information help advice and guidance big asks i know but hopeful.

On the 2nd of May 1930 my grandfathers father William Spinks fathered a child with Gwendoline Nunn. They was unmarried and i believe William was still married to another lady at this time. The child was a girl named Coonah Patricia Nunn. An unusual name maybe in the hope of refinding her one day i do not know. The birth was registered 26.5.1930 by the mother father was not present and there for is un named on the register. The birth took place 230 high street south east hackney and mother resided 28 urswick road.

Sortly after it has been said by family members she was adopted illegally or legally i do not know. I have her birth certificate. She is said to of been chosen by photo and taken to a big building where she did not come out of. The adopted family were said to be Irish and taken to Ireland.

The father William Spinks placed adverts in papers on her 21st birthday as a plea for her contact but never recieved a reply. Quite why in a london paper if he believed she had gone to Ireland i do not know. I did not consider that when i tried to search 11 years ago.
I have a copy of the article.

I also wrote to the barts and the London NHS back in oct 2006 and they had a record of the birth of this child to this mother of the matching date and address admitted to Hackney Hosp 2.5.1930 discharged 14.5.1930 home. Child was called Gwen whilst in hospital. Other then the ward they was on the record shows no further information.

I cannot find any information on what happened to Coonah surely adoption had to be legal and if not legal something would now surely come to light did she marry is she alive she may be deceased but i just do not know what to retry.

Can anyone help at all?

I would be so so grateful

Well legal adoption started in 1928 so it's very possible it was done legally

Sometimes adoptions were done though the Catholic Church ,ie they would arrange for new parents for one of their unmarried parishioners ,sometimes it's was the girls dad who insisted the baby would be adopted

Only mentioning this as if the baby went to Ireland it's possibly the new parents were Catholic .

Only the adopted child can access their adoption papers though

Have you looked on members trees to see if she is in someone's tree

From Irish site
http://www.missing.ie/lost_contacts/coonah-patricia-clodagh-nunn/

Coonah Patricia Clodagh Nunn

I am searching for my grandfather's sister, born Coonah Patricia Nunn in may of 1930 Hackney London England. Her birth parents were Gwendoline Nunn and William Spinks. She was adopted shortly after and taken to Ireland then renamed clodagh, surname unknown. I am seeking any information on this lady and urging her to come forward to us. Please contact the webmaster of this website.

It seems that the poster is the only person with Coonah in her tree on Genes.

Have you added yourself to the adoption contact register in the hope that Coonah may do the same if she decides to look for her birth family?

I think in 1930 there would still be some "informal" adoptions as it wasn't that long after adoption became regulated.

Kath. x

Hello all and thanks for your kind replies I am the only member with Coonah on my tree. The missing persons post was also me in 2006 thats the last time I searched but hoping now will uncover more things in my search. I am on the adoption contact register also. I contacted alot of organisations but had no joy but nothing catholic related to be honest ive forgotten alot now but I have today contacted the gro and the salvation army heritage. What makes me think maybe was legal is because it was said in the family that the child was taken to a big building and given up and chose via photo this must show that some agency or official was involved? It was also said within the family she went to ireland but her birth father and mother posted in local papers on what would of been her 21st birthday so why would they do that if she did go to ireland. I don't really know what avenues to try to even begin to know if she was legally adopted I mean would something be indicated in the birth records a marking? A revised entry for new name or a deadpole or similar I really do not know

Alex x

G83,

If you have a copy of her birth certificate it will state in the right hand margin,,,,,,,,Adopted----even if it was a private adoption.which still had to go through a court for legal purposes.

If the certificate doesnt have adopted on it then legal adoption didnt take place.

The parent/s would not have known back then where the child would have been adopted to,,,,agencies had a big habit of fabricating the truth by telling the mother the child was going to be adopted by people with money,such as doctor.solicitor or some such other stories.

Yes nothing in the margins at all but I believe agencies was involved in some adoptions or long term fosters I dont know why the family said about ireland maybe like you say they were told such I mean chosing babies from photos did this take place? Maybe it wasnt a legal thing I just dont know I dont know what avenues to try

If it doesnt have -Adopted- then its unlikley it took place,regardless of where the child ended up,it is always handwritten on any copies of further birth certificates in England/Wales.

There is always a very slim chance the notice sliiped the net and local and general register office didnt make a notation against the birth in their register but its doubtful.

there is always the chance that she joined the thousands that were sent overseas....

have you tried Barnardos to see if she passed though them.all children under their care wasnt adopted.

I think I did back in 2006 but I am.going to retry them as I focused on another line of the family back then and now im focusing on Coonah at the moment. Still cant help but think what a very unsual name never come accross it before and subsequent children had very normal names to say the least

I will try bernardos tomorrow

:-)

Not sure it helps, but in 1931 Gwendoline Jane Nunn was living at 28 Unswick Rd. Along with Cyril, Esther and Harold John. Are you in contact with any Nunn descendants at all, in case they know more?

that was going to be my guess for Gwendoline, given age and place of birth

Births Mar 1909
NUNN Gwendoline Jane Hackney 1b 386

household in 1911 at 18 Farleigh Road, Stoke Newington, Hackney

Charles Nunn 41
> Esther Nunn 35
Esther Nunn 12
Charles Nunn 10
> Harold Nunn 7
> Cyril Nunn 5
Gwendoline Nunn 3
George Nunn 29 brother of Charles
Louisa Nunn 24 sister of Charles

so there are a few more names

ah I see ... your grandfather and Gwendoline did marry, some time later ... and you descend from a child after their second.

I would guess it is unlikely that others in Gwendoline's family would know more than your own then ...

the only other Coonah in the entire GRO index is

Marriages Sep 1929
Campbell John J B (Young) Wandsworth 1d 1658
Young Coonah E (Campbell) Wandsworth 1d 1658

and of course there is no birth record in England/Wales for her, and no death record (she would almost certainly be deceased by now, and is not on any electoral roll)

ah, here she is:

Name: Coonah Edith Campbell
Gender: Female
Age: 30
Birth Date: abt 1899
Departure Date: 2 Nov 1929
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Bombay, India
Ship Name: Domala

what I wondered was whether, given that they would have been about the same age, your Gwendoline and she might have been friends, hence the name

not that this would get you much of anywhere at this point ...

but she was actually a decade older

these are undoubtedly her parents, from familysearch

Name James Archibald Young
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 14 Jul 1919
Event Place Pinetown, Natal, South Africa
Gender Male
Age 21
Birth Year (Estimated) 1898
Spouse's Name Coonah Mcevoy
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 23
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1896

so there seems maybe to be a Scottish flavour to the name


ah, also Bertha Coonah Wood born 1905 in Cornwall and died (Bertha Coonah Story) in 1974 (Ancestry transcribes as 'Coonan')


pretty much the only other existence of the name is as a street name in NSW Australia

you mentioned the name Clodagh in postings elsewhere, and Ireland ...


this dob is so close

Name: Clodagh Janie E Johnston
Birth Date: 13 May 1930
Date of Registration: Jun 2004
Age at Death: 74
Registration district: Chester and ellesmere Port
Inferred County: Cheshire
Register Number: A51
District and Subdistrict: 340/1A
Entry Number: 190

and there is no way of tracing that person's birth if she was born in Africa ... she has one record of entry and numerous outgoing records on passenger lists with parents Frederick William and Eileen ... him a civil servant and later a judge, and the couple being 34 and 33 when she was 3+1/2, their last permanent residence having been Uganda, and them being destined to an address in the Irish Free State ... other destinations were London and Chester.

there's no marriage in England/Wales for a Frederick W Johnston (22 Dec 1899) + Eileen (3 Dec 1900) (dobs from a later passenger record)


Ancestry is giving me the pip ... the preview shows 'Frederick William Johnston'

Name: Frederick Johnston
Birth Date: 22 Dec 1899
Date of Registration: Mar 1981
Age at Death: 81
Registration district: Chester and ellesmere Port
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 35
Page: 0203

Name: Eileen Johnston
Birth Date: 3 Dec 1900
Date of Registration: Jun 1990
Age at Death: 89
Registration district: Vale Royal
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 35
Page: 938

I suspect

Name Frederick William Johnston
Event Type Marriage
Event Date Oct - Dec 1928
Event Place Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Oct - Dec 1928
Registration District Dublin South
Volume Number 2
Page Number 287

yes

Name Eileen Milne
Event Type Marriage
> Event Date Oct - Dec 1928
> Event Place Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Oct - Dec 1928
Registration District Dublin South
> Volume Number 2
> Page Number 287

so

Name Eileen Milne
Event Type Birth
Event Date Jan - Mar 1901
Event Place Dublin North, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jan - Mar 1901
Registration District Dublin North
Volume Number 2
Page Number 527

there are possibilities for FWJ's birth in Chesterfield and Belfast

this does mean that my surmise that they might have been childless for a decade was not so

I think this was Frederick travelling out directly after the marriage

Name: Frederick Johnson
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Birth Date: abt 1899
Departure Date: 21 Dec 1928
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Mombasa, Kenya
Ship Name: Malda

and then

Name: Mrs Johnston with Miss C J Johnston aged 1
Gender: Female
Age: 29
Birth Date: abt 1902
Departure Date: 25 Jun 1931
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Mombasa, Kenya
Ship Name: Danstephan Castle


so it is seeming that Clodagh was born abroad ...

except when did Eileen travel out of the UK after her marriage and before the Feb 1931 arrival (esp. before May 1930)


here is the earliest incoming passenger record I see ... but it is before that outgoing

Name: Clodagh G E Johnston (mistranscribed, J E)
(with Frederick Wm and Eileen)
Port of Departure: Beira, Mozambique
Arrival Date: 15 Feb 1931
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage: Plymouth
Ship Name: Modasa

destination was Dublin again



wild and crazy theory ...

but if Clodagh Johnston was the child of a British civil servant born in a British colony, her birth should show up at findmypast in 'British nationals born overseas 1818-2005' and it doesn't seem to (index to consular births 1925-1930, nothing in search results and nothing on the relevant page of the original index)

just in case this possibility is of interest, there is as much as I can find

I was actually wondering whether there might have been a triangular relationship ...

if Coonah Edith (Young) Campbell was known to Gwendoline Nunn
... and William and Eileen Johnston were known to Coonah Campbell ... she was the same age ... if her husband was a civil servant (she left for Bombay right after marriage) ...

but I can't find her husband leaving England, to see his occupation

I wonder where he was ship's crew? :-S

Coonah patricia nunn was daughter too gwendoline nunn of 28 urswick road yes definitely the father is lined through but was my great grandad william spinks. He was still married to another lady at the time Ivy Young. My ggf and gwen had 3 children one of which was Coonah the others were not given up and remained in the family. I stated the name clodaugh previously as my grand father recalled he thought the childs name was changed to this and im guessing surname would of definitely been changed with the new family. But again its word of mouth my ggf added a post in the paper 1951 wishing Coonah a happy 21st so its all confusing to me and I dont know if any above is possibility or not?

I do thank you for your efforts and replies

well yes, Alexandra, I know I understood all of that perfectly from the get go ... all of that being the reason I embarked on a line of investigation into possible sources for the name Coonah and possible incidences of the name Clodagh ...

It's a line of investigation you might want to consider. For instance, by looking for family of the Milne-Johnston couple to see whether their daughter can be ruled out.

That's how these things are done: find possibilities, investigate them, rule them out if that is the case, move on to look for others ... :-)

Ok I understand so now how do I go about that to contact possible relatives to enquire

Thank you

well ... first you look for some :-)

I spent rather a long time on all that late last night, having got rather fixated on figuring it out, but I'm afraid that today I have to get stuff done!

I guess trying to discover whether Eileen Milne had siblings would be a start. I'll come back to this at a later point.

I understand thank you. I received today an email from the GRO stating if adopted in the UK her certificate would state adopted as someone else mentioned on the thread and its definitely not. She mentioned contacting equivalent authorities in Ireland but my query on that is it possible for a London born childs adoption to legally take place in ireland which would then not show on her original birth entry

Jooniecloonie

I have inboxed you i hope you dont mind however im thinking after re reading all this is there anyway of searching passenger records around 1929-1930 from ireland to UK Clodaugh wont be on them but Eileen should with possibly Frederick or alone? theory to help identify this was my aunt. i feel in my gut here that something is urging me to persue this theory and i have forwarded it as a possibility to the irish and english GROs as without a adoptive or taken surname after birth they was reluctant to help.

I dont know much about passenger lists and so on and freebmd nothing on Clodaugh at all no marriage i know she passed away with the surname Johnston but did she really not marry not have children im not sure

x