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Hi,
I have located a family in the 1891 census and can find them in the 1911 census but not the 1901 census.

Census 1891 for Pendleton, Salford shows
Thomas b1866 Manchester m Mary Connell b 1869 (d1894) Correction - edit:-(death 1894 not 1891)
with 3 children:
Margaret 1888, Sarah 1890 and Thomas 1892.

Mary died 1891 and it appears that Thomas remarried to Mary Ellen Paton in 1896.
The 1911 census shows Thomas (senior) and Mary married for 10 years with Thomas (jnr) and 4 more additions , May, 1897, Florrie, Rosie and Martin.

Any thoughts on why they are missing from 1901 census please?

10 years married in 1911 would indicate a marriage in 1901 - not 1896. Have you looked for the marriage on Lancashire BMD site, which ties up partners in a marriage.

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1896
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
PATON Mary E MORGAN Thomas Manchester Register Office or Registrar Attended Archives+, Manchester Central Library MCR_RM/137/7

1911 for birthplace info etc

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
15 Rossall St Pendleton Salford, Pendleton, Lancashire, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Thomas Morgan Head Married Male 44 1867 Pendleton Lanc Labourer Transcription
Mary Ellen Morgan Wife Married Female 44 1867 Hulme Lanc - Transcription
Thomas Morgan Son Single Male 19 1892 Pendleton Lanc Street Hawker Transcription
May Morgan Daughter - Female 14 1897 Pendleton Lanc School Transcription
Florie Morgan Daughter - Female 13 1898 Pendleton Lanc School Transcription
Rosie Morgan Daughter - Female 7 1904 Pendleton Lanc School Transcription
Martin Morgan Son - Male 4 1907 Pendleton Lanc - Transcription

Something doesn't add up.......

..................they say in 1911 married 10 years, 4 children born........two of whom have died

Unfortunately, Lancs BMD does not yet show MMN on Salford births

On the 1911 census it says Mary Ellen had 4 children, two of which had died so Rosie and Martin must be her children.

If Thomas's first wife Mary died in 1891 then the other children on the 1911 census - Thomas, May and Florrie must have been born to someone else.

Kath. x

Thanks but..
Potty - the problem is that there isn't a marriage recorded in 1900, the nearest that matches is the one that Jacqueline has found 1896.

Jacueline - the 1911 census details match - the Thomas (1867) and Thomas (1892) can be found on 1891 census. I can't find them on the 1901 census though?

So they lied?

It happened..................

probably a good idea to get a birth cert for one of the later children........Martin's would be best, as his name is the most unusual for the time

ok, so the 1911 people aren't the same as the 1891 people, is that what you are thinking?

The problem I have is that I can't find the 1891 family in 1901. If I could access that census record it would help decide whether the 1911 details are the same people/family.

No, I'm saying the woman in 1911 probably wasn't his wife

Who are you actually related to?

1891 for INFO

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Chapel Place, Pendleton, Salford, Lancashire, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Morgan Head Married Male 25 1866 General Labourer Manchester, Lancashire, England Transcription
Mary Morgan Wife Married Female 22 1869 - Salford, Lancashire, England Transcription
Margaret Morgan Daughter - Female 3 1888 - Pendleton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Sarah E Morgan Daughter - Female 1 1890 - Pendleton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Mary A Thompson Lodger Single Female 18 1873 Reeler Of Cotton Lancaster, Lancashire, England Transcription

I can't find any of the 1911 family in 1901; can't find birth records for Florrie and Rose (have looked under Pat* as well as Morgan) and can't find a Mary Ellen Paton either!

:-D :-S
I am related to a Thomas Morgan born in 1892 who married Annie Bainbridge in 1916. I know that he lived in Salford. I know that he had two sisters Margaret and Sarah. I have attempted to work back from that....

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1906
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
MORGAN Martin Salford Greengate Salford GRE/196/48

??????????
Births Mar 1903 (>99%)
MORGAN Rose Salford 8d 18

Where did Thomas b 1892 come from? Too young to be on the 1891 so what makes you think the 1911 census is for the same family?

Does he name his father as Thomas on his marriage cert?

And does the father's occupation match that on the censuses?

What was the groom's address?

Thomas had a middle name:

Name:Thomas Henry Morgan - Hawker, 5 Gladstone St
Birth Year:abt 1892
Age:24
Marriage Date:30 Sep 1916
Parish:Charlestown, St George
Parish as it Appears:Charlestown
Father's Name:Thomas Morgan - Labourer
Spouse's Name:Annie Bainbridge
Spouse's Father's Name:William Bainbridge

You didn't mention the second forename

Marriages Sep 1916 (>99%)
Bainbridge Annie Morgan Salford 8d 14
Morgan Thomas H Bainbridge Salford 8d 14


How could this be the child of a woman who died in 1891?

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1892
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
MORGAN Thomas H Pendleton Salford PEN/127/50

Birth registered JUNE Qtr