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Sorry all, I let my membership lapse and have only just got back and checking threads.
I am currently doing an online uNI course, and that is taking up a lot of my time, but this thread is extremely interesting and I will not give up until I find a link to Mackay! Please bear with me as I refamiliarise myself with this branch and look at where it stands. :)

Hi Wendy

sorry not to have replied to your messages, but have been away since the 21st and only back yesterday.

I have looked at the baptisms Christine mentions: the one for Ann gives her father as an Ostler and there is another baptism for an Ann in 1817 which also gives her father as an Ostler - think the below is her burial; the baptism for Eliza gives her father as porter.


England & Wales, Non-Conformist and Non-Parochial Registers, 1567-1970

Name:Ann Taylor
Birth Date:abt 1818
Event Type:Burial
Death Date:abt 1819
Death Age:7/12 - images is 1-7 (one year 7 months,
Burial Date:
Jan 1819
Burial Place:London, Middlesex, England

Piece 313: Orders for funerals, 1818

There is also a baptism for a Thomas in 1816, parents Thomas & Jane; Thomas shown as a porter and same address as the one for Eliza (Union Buildings);

You know what Christina, you may be right.
Looking at James and Eliza's marriage record, and her father Thomas is listed as a well digger, but in the birth records as a porter.
I went back to a post you made..

"I can't see a birth registration for Edward Broomhead but there is one for
Edward Taylor - Oct-Dec 1837 - Hackney

It could be that Eliza had him before she married James. (They were both only about 25 years old when they married)"

That could well explain why he was called Broomhead, but we have to remember that Taylor was a very common name in the area.
Incidently, Eliza Taylor's great granddaughter Elsie Fish, married George Taylor. I will of course be wondering if there is any ancestral connection!

OK, back to the drawing board to eliminate some and make certain of others.
Thankyou.

Are you sure you've got the right Eliza Taylor baptism?

There's one for Eliza Taylor - 1813 - St.Leonard Shoreditch - parents Thomas and Jane (she may have taken a couple of years off her age so as not to appear older than her husband.

There's also an Ann Taylor - 1820 - St.Leonard Shoreditch - parents Thomas and Jane.

Ann Taylor married Joseph William Tyrell in 1840 - She has her father as Thomas Taylor a well digger (same as Eliza)

Hi Wendy, Do you already have these baptisms?

James Broomhead - 1815 - St.Botolph Bishopsgate - parents James and Elizabeth - carver - living Three Colt Court

Henry Broomhead - 1822 - St.Botolph Bishopsgate - parents James and Elizabeth - carver - living Three Colt Court

Also, death 1813

James Broomhead - age 5 - Three Colt Court

This would tie in with the 1807 marriage. Doesn't help with the Mackay though.

The only marriage I can find at a suitable time in a suitable place for Thomas Taylor and a Margaret is

Margaret Lindsay,
22 July 1811 St Marylebone, Middlesex, England

Hi all. Well Christmas is almost upon us, and I know how busy a time it is, especially for the mums with cooking, wrapping, shopping etc. Thankfully I have one more platter to put together Christmas Eve, and I'll be all done. So I will not be expecting too much return input, but if you are super organised and have nothing to do, then perhaps you could join my little hunt.

From record images and processes of elimination we can be fairly certain that James Broomheads parents were James (C1875) and Elizabeth Ann Buck (1784-1882). Elizabeths parents were most likely George Buck and Ann Cooper (both C1860). So not much luck with the Mackay link there.
However, we are finding it very hard to find the details for Eliza Taylor's parents, especially her mother. We now for certain that Eliza was born 11/04/1815, baptised 13/04/1815 in the British Lying In Hospital Holborn. Her mother recorded as Margaret. Her father as Thomas, a Porter by trade. But we are unable to find any more. I have found a possible sibling for Eliza (the record eludes me for now) but that is about it. I have searched for a Margaret Mackay as a possibility, but no luck either. Can i get some help please in tracking down a marriage for Thomas and Margaret, I'm thinking C1800-1815.
Good movie on TV, just had a late BBQ dinner, so will check back in a bit and add the inevitable info I would have forgotten! ;-)

Gins. I just went back to your earlier post regarding the parents for Eiza Taylor. That cannot be the correct one sorry. The records have Margaret as Eliza's mother.

Just found a discrepency with the Holborn, British Lying-In Hospital, Endell Street.
Eliza was born there in 1815, and her sister (I found, and possibly more siblings), was born there in 1820.
However, after googling the hospital and the history of it (and others), I discovered this....
"Lying In Hospital, Endell Street, Holborn, London

Founded in 1749 for married women only, it was situated in Brownlow Street, Long Acre, Holborn until 1849 when it moved to Endell Street. It closed in 1913."

I am guessing someone 'presumed' that was the address without doing their history, and added the new address, even though it would have been impossible for the girls to have been at Endell st. I have just rechecked the baptism record Potty so kindly sent me, and it is address British Lying In Hospital...no street address.

Just goes to show how one slip by a transciber can throw people off the trail!

I just looked at them, fascinating! Thankyou!!!

Looking into the mother's (Eliza Taylor, father Thomas), I found this although it says baptism it is more a record of her birth :


England & Wales, Non-Conformist and Non-Parochial Registers, 1567-1970
about Eliza Taylor
Name:Eliza Taylor
Birth Date:Abt 1815
Event Type:Baptism
Father:Thomas Taylor
Mother:Margt Taylor
Baptism Date:13 Apr 1815
Baptism Place:Holborn, Middlesex, England
Piece Title:
Piece 60: Holborn, British Lying-In Hospital Endell Street: Nos 25878-34215. Vol 9, 1797-1819

This is the baptism record:


England & Wales, Non-Conformist and Non-Parochial Registers, 1567-1970
about Eliza Taylor
Name:Eliza Taylor
Event Type:Baptism
Father:Thomas Taylor
Mother:Margaret Taylor
Baptism Date:13 Apr 1815
Baptism Place:British Lying In Hospital, Middlesex, England
Denomination:Anglican
Piece Title:Piece 65: Holborn, British Lying-In Hospital, Endell Street: Register of Baptisms, Vol 10, 1814-1822

Births Sep 1847 BROOMHEAD Henry Shoreditch 2 349

Births Mar 1841 Broomhead Eliza Bethnal Gn. 2 13

Births Mar 1845 BROOMHEAD William Mackey Bethnal Gn 2 6


Name: Eliza Broomhead
Spouse Name: Henry Smith
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 18 Jun 1860
Parish: Bethnal Green St Andrew
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: James Broomhead
Spouse Father: Frederick Smith
Register Type: Parish Register


????

1871

Name: Eliza Smith
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Henry Smith
Gender: Female
Where born: Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Hackney St John
Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration District: Hackney
Sub-registration District: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Household Schedule Number: 60
Piece: 326
Folio: 51
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Smith 30
Eliza Smith 30
Henry Smith 10
John Smith 9
Elizabeth Smith 5
Canoline Smith 2
Emma Smith 1


1881

Name: Eliza Smith
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: Henry Smith
Gender: Female
Where born: Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 52 Brook Street
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration District: Hackney
Sub-registration District: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 37a
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 307
Folio: 139
Page Number: 88
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Smith 40
Eliza Smith 40
Henry Smith 20
John Smith 19
Elizabeth Smith 15
Alice Smith 8
Harriet Smith 6
Alfred Smith 5
Eliza Smith 6 months

TY Chris!
Yes I had Caroline, but always good to have any records for reference. :)

OK so list of children updated...

1841 - ? Eliza
1843 - ? Caroline Mary Ann
1845 - 1849 William Mackay
1847 - 1848 Henry
1850 - ? William Mackay
1852 - 1922 Henry Mackay
1855 - 1906 James

I'm going to make an educated guess and say that there is another child between 1852 and 1855 ;-)

Births Sep 1847 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
BROOMHEAD Henry Shoreditch 2 349


Deaths Dec 1848 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
BROOMHEAD Henry Shoreditch 2 293

(perhaps above was first Henry)


http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Chris :)

Name: Caroline Mary Ann Broomhead
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Age: 20
Spouse Name: William Starkey (Cab Driver)
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 12 Jul 1863
Parish: Bethnal Green St Andrew
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: James Broomhead (Turner)
Spouse Father: Charles William Starkey (Weaver)
Register Type: Parish Register
(abode for her, 3 Ely Place, Digby Street. Wits. James Broomhead, Martha Starkey)

(not sure if already added, apologies if so)

Shall I throw a spanner in the works?
Potty kindly sent me the image of the 1847 list of baptisms.
These include, all listed as the children of James and Eliza Broomhead, with his occupation all as Turner, and all at the same address......

Based on what information we already know, their ages would be guessed at...

Henry - ?

William - 2

Eliza - 6

Edward Corbett - 9

The first question is why does Edward have a middle name included, but not William (Mackay)? (We know both Williams had the middle name Mackay)

Why is Caroline not included (We know she was alive at the time)?

Who is Henry? The son of James and Eliza wasn't born until 1851/2 And we have found no other record so far for him (birth or death).

In 1847, James and Eliza had had only 3 children that we have found.
As we know Edward was born before they were married, and with no record for Henry (pre 1847), do we have children from different parents?

I am going to guess that this Henry was born between 1845 and 1847

Wendy

I have sent you the image of James and Eliza's marriage. If you want any of the other images let me know.

I am not going to stress anymore over Edwin/Edward Broomhead/Corbett/Corward. Despite being a very intriguing story, he is not an ancestor of great importance, and I do believe there are too many questions that won't get answered about him. But you never know, one day something may come up. I do think it is mote likely he is the baby brother to James, but will we ever be sure?
I am going to refocus on the Mackay link (if any), and start looking closer at the grandparents. :)

Agreed, Chris, that 1858 marriage would be worth looking at - frustrating that it is not on Ancestry.

One thing that might back up Wendy's thoughts that Edward was the son of James 1788, is that on the marriage of Edward Corward his father's occupation is given as Carver and on James 1815 marriage to Eliza Taylor the same father's occupation is given but on all the James 1815's children's marriages father's occupation is Turner.

Hi Wendy,

Afraid I haven't been able to find a Mackay connection, but going back to your queries about Edwin.

The only children James and Eliza had baptised in 1846 were:
Eliza; Henry; William and Edward Corbett (I wonder if Corbett was a mistrancription by the clerk).

Edward wouldn't have been listed as Base born as his parents were married at the time of the baptism.

1841 census doesn't mention the relationships within the families, so James Broomhead age 54 and Edward Broomhead age 4 doesn't say either son or grandson.

The only time Edwin is mentioned is on the 1851 census. Edward isn't on there, but his age would have been the same as that given to Edwin.

As Chris Ho posted earlier, Edward Corward names his father as James Broomhead, on his marriage certificate. So, presumably, he saw James as his father although he knew he wasn't really.

I can't see a birth registration for Edward Broomhead but there is one for
Edward Taylor - Oct-Dec 1837 - Hackney

It could be that Eliza had him before she married James. (They were both only about 25 years old when they married)

So it really does look as though Edward and Edwin are the same person.

(possibly the below, Hornsey)


Births Dec 1851 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Broomhead Edwin Blackburn Edmonton 3 180

1861
BROMHEAD, Stevens L Head Married M 45 1816 Commercial Traveller...
..., Yorkshire
BROMHEAD, Susannah H Wife Married F 30 1831
..., Middlesex
BROMHEAD, Octavius Son M 11 1850 Scholar
Scarborough, Yorkshire
BROMHEAD, Edwin B Son M 9 1852 Scholar
Hornsey, Middlesex
BROMHEAD, Mary J L Daughter F 7 1854 Scholar
Leicester
BROMHEAD, Agnes Daughter F 1 1860
Leicester
CLEM, Martha Servant Unmarried F 19 1842 House Servant
Leicester Great Dalby
Piece: 2293
Folio: 37
Page: 14
Registration District: Leicester
Civil Parish: St Mary
Municipal Borough: Leicester
Address: 6, West Street, St Mary, Leicester
County: Leicestershire

1851 (his Mother)
BLACKBURN, Mary Head Unmarried F 45 1806 Fundholder
Little Britton, London
GREENS, Rebeckah Aunt Widow F 62 1789 Annuitant
Blind Norwich
BROOMHEAD, Octavius Nephew Married M 35 1816 Glavers Clerk
Askern, Yorkshire
BROOMHEAD, Sussannah Wife Married F 22 1829
Ludgate Hill, London
BROOMHEAD, Octavius Son M 1 1850
Scarbro, Yorkshire
BROOMHEAD, Francis Son M ?
Croydon, Surrey
GRAY, Sarah Niece Unmarried F 16 1835
Newington, Surrey
BIRCH, Sarah Servant F 28 1823 General Servant
Andover, Hampshire
COULTER, Jane Servant F 17 1834 General Servant
Stoke, Kent
Piece: 1702
Folio: 73
Page: 31
Registration District: Edmonton
Civil Parish: Hornsey
Municipal Borough:
Address: 1, Belle Vue Terrace, Hornsey
County: Middlesex

(noting on 1871, he is 2nd Mate, John Trebell a Mariner)

Death
Name:BROOMHEAD, Edwin B
Date of death:December 1900
Age:
Place of death:
Place of birth:
Belonging to service:
Ship's name:
Series:BT334 - Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea

Chris :)


Marriages Dec 1858 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Coward Edward Shoreditch 1c 371
Dunkley Henrietta Elizabeth Shoreditch 1c 371

(would be interesting to see details on above, not seeing Ancestry London)