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http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1336187

I cannot seem to locate either mary ann or her first husband in 1861.

who is the father to the children,
she was with him from 1871 census,we need to see if we can find her earlier,if she was with her husband then maybe only lucy was James's.

Marriage: 2 May 1859 St Paul, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
James Simpson Horseman - 24, Tin-plate worker, Bachelor, Blakey Moor
Mary Ann Tennant - (X), 21, Weaver, Spinster, Blakey Moor
Groom's Father: Robert Horseman, Surgeon
Bride's Father: Thomas Tennant, General Dealer
Witness: Henry Aspden; Ann Aspden, (X)
Married by Banns by: H. W. Marychurch


Not sure it's the same Mary Ann who married your James Howarth.
Her age doesn't match.

You really need to buy one of the children's birth certs to see which Mary Ann married your James

Name: James Simpson Horseman
:
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Tennant
:
Event Date: 02 May 1859
Event Place: St Paul'S, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: Robert Horseman
:
Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Tennant

Mary Ann wouldn't have been a widow in 1877 if this wwas her husband !!!


Deaths Dec 1878
HORSMAN James Simpson - 43- Haslingden 8e 139



****Death not in Preston though Preston would hold the records

.

I just checked the death's james simpson horsman is down as 1878 aged 43yrs???.
in preston lancs.
they married before he died?

Marriages Jun 1859
Brown Alice Blackburn 8e 378
Horsman James Simpson - Blackburn 8e 378
Tennant Mary Ann - Blackburn 8e 378
Wilkinson Henry Blackburn 8e 378

This birth cert would give you mother's maiden name


Births Sep 1870
Howarth Lucy Jane - Rochdale 8e 50

not sure mike but I did find this,

james Howarth aged 40 yrs batchelor,
mary ann horsman-widow,
married 30th december 1877 at st chads Rochdale.
groom's father john Howarth,
bride's father Thomas tennant.!!!!

from lancs opc

1891

James Howarth 58 - Carter - Spotland Lancs
Mary A Howarth 59
William H Howarth 28
Lucy J Howarth 20

Marriages Jun 1903

Aspinall Fred Rochdale 8e 138
Harrison Eliza Rochdale 8e 138
Howarth Lucy Jane Rochdale 8e 138
Mills John Edmund Rochdale 8e 138

Did Lucy Jane marry Fred Aspinall ?

1911

Fred Aspinall 43
Lucy Jane Aspinall 40
Marien Aspinall 7
Frank Aspinall 3
James Howarth 78 - father in law - retired - widowed - Rochdale
--

going by the detail's you gave above,
1871 census,

james-1833-aged 38.
mary a-1832-aged 39.
ann c -1856-aged 15 daughter.
William h-1863-aged 8.son.
mary v 1865-aged 6.
lucy j-1871 aged 0.
mary jane 1848-aged 23-lodger.

parsmonds bears hill terrace,
spotland,
Rochdale.

1881 census.
james-1833-aged 48.
mary ann-1832-aged 49.
William h-1863-aged 18.
lucy j-1871-aged 10.

edenfield road,
spotland,rochdale.

judging by the birth of ann c in 1856 maybe the wedding was in the 1850s not the 1870s.

james Howarth to mary ann tenant 1877 Rochdale from this marriage ,,,,

William h 1863,,,
mary e1865,,,
lucy jane 1871,,

was this a second marriage or did they have their children before they married.

if not something is wrong with the date's.

from your first posting.

My time at the library is almost up if i do not reply i shall be back again tomorrow.

Many thanks for your help today

There is another James b 1836 with father John and mother Sarah

1851

James Howarth
Age:15
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1836

Father's Name:John Howarth
Mother's Name:Sarah Howarth
Where born:Rochdale, Lancashire, England <<<<<<

John Howarth 36
Sarah Howarth 40
James Howarth 15
Mary Howarth 11
Elizabeth Howarth 9
Sarah Howarth 6
Alice Howarth 4
John Howarth 2
George Howarth 62
Samuel Howarth 25
George Howarth 22

Yes that is them Mike .. Thanks

Martha Howarth is my 3 x great grandmother who married William Yates in 1843

So this must be the family in 1851

John Howarth 58 - born Wardle
Sarah Howarth 54
Alice Howarth 25
Molly Howarth 22
James Howarth 15 - born Wardle <<<<<<<<<
John Howarth 14
Edmund Howarth 7
Sarah Howarth 3
Hannah Howarth 2 Mo



Did Sarah really give birth to Hannah when she was 54 ????

All i know for certain about John is sibblings and father John Howarth