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Thanks for the confusion i had Regards

As I posted, Wm Todd marr Eve by banns 13/'1/1806.

To be marr by banns, banns have to be called beforehand on 3 successive Sundays within the preceeding 3m - if they were from difft parishes, banns would have to be called in both parishes. The purpose of proclaiming banns was to allow objections to be raised, e.g., by parents of a minor spouse, or by living spouses of one of the couple.

There was no real standards for recording anything pre-1812ish, but many parishes had special registers where they recorded just banns, and it would seem that this is what Michael's Dec 1805 reference is on about.

Now looking for W M Todd found that he married Eve Parker Glamorgan Banns Dec 1805 as did William in Jan 1806 Regards

Yes, Wm is certainly an abbreviation of William........

Thanks all now have to think what Wm Todd is short for William then i may be able to go back further Regards

Place:MERTHYR TYDFIL
Page 77
No 312 William Todd of this Parish and Eve
Parker of the same Parish were
Married in this Church by Banns
this thirteenth Day of January in the Year One Thousand Eight Hundred
and Six By me Thos Jones Curate
This Marriage was solemnized between us {The mark X of William Todd
{The mark X of Eve Parker
In the Presence of { Wm Todd
{ William Williams

[There are 8 marrs on the image, going back to 25/12/1805, and William Williams is a witness on all of them]

What "document" are you looking at? Certificates are not available before Q3 1837.

Jude

Hi all im back got as far as i can WILLIAM TODD MARRIED EVE PARKER IN 1806 GLAMORGANSHIRE so gone back over 200 years looked at document but cannot see properly name of witness maiden name,surname Todd maybe if i knew it may get me a bit further Regards Michael

Yes Michael this i9s the one we have been looking at - Rose posted this on page 2

Jude

could this be the one 1861 Census
WILLIAM TODD HEAD BORN 1814 CORN MERCHANT MERTHYR
WILLIAM TODD SON BORN 1849 SCHOLAR ABERDARE
IVOR TODD SON BORN 1845 SCHOLAR ABERDARE
THOMAS H TODD SON BORN 1856 SCHOLAR ABERDARE
RACHEL JONES SERVANT
Residance MERCHANT ST ABERDARE

I think ramblingrose post could be spot on because on the certificate
THOMAS TODD rank Ale and Porter Merchant as ia the same for WILLIAM TODD and the residance at time of marriage is High street ABERDARE.
still a bit confused because on her post Elizabeth is Williams spouse

Thomas was 22 Sarah 17

What were their ages Michael?

Jude

Hi folks just an update got the marriage certificate today THOMAS TODD Married SARAH ELIZABETH PAYNE 27 AUG 1878 Fathers name WILLIAM TODD -JOHN PAYENE.The search goes on Regards Michael

Just a coincidence but I had family that moved from the ebbw vale area of Wales to the north east looking for work in 1880 and so I would not rule out the death posted by HeyJudeB4Beatles

Deaths Jun 1881 (>99%)
Todd Thomas 25 Morpeth 10b 191

Roy

There is a tree on Ancestry which has a second marriage for William, and half siblings to Thomas ( 1855) , but it doesn't have anything further on Thomas or brother Ivor after 1871.

NB Not finding the marriage but this is the 1881 census?

1881 Wales Census about William Todd
Name: William Todd
Age: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Todd
Gender: Male
Where born: Merthyr Tydfil
Civil Parish: Aberdare
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 62 High St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Ale & Porter Merchant
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration District: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5322
Folio: 6
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
William Todd 66
Elizabeth Todd 26
William Todd 2

View original image

It may not be relevant but Thomas's brother Ivor born 1850 also seems to disappear after the 1871 census, maybe just a possible that they emigrated for work, and Thomas died overseas?

This is Ivor in 1871 for ref

1871 Wales Census about Ivor Todd
Name: Ivor Todd
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberdare, Glamorganshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Aberdare
Town: Aberdare
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration District: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household Schedule Number: 129
Piece: 5408
Folio: 91
Page Number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Welsh 43
Ann Welsh 44
Edward Griflyam 22
Catharine A Welsh 10
John Jones 35
Ivor Todd 21

Michael please do.....it might be worth a £9.25 punt on Thomas H Todd to Lilian Francis White...if only to see what he says about HIS father. On the face of it, his father died just after he was born and his mother remarried....but I just can't find a death for his father :-S

If i am right Thomas H Todd Born 1880 Timber Merchant married Lilian Francis White in 1904 only for 7 years and i think he died in the 1st world war
its his father im stuck on ill just wait for the marriage certificate to come THOMAS TODD married SARAH ELIZABETH PAYNE in 1878 and i will post on here when or if it comes Regards Michael

Thomas H Todd b 1855 seems to disappear! I am open to suggestion but in 1881 - just three years after their marriage, Sarah is alone and their two year old son - seemingly named after his father - is with his grandparents. She is "Head" and I think it is probably "widowed"....but there is not a death that fits before she marries again in 1886.

This death fits....

Deaths Jun 1881 (>99%)
Todd Thomas 25 Morpeth 10b 191

As does this

Deaths Mar 1888 (>99%)
TODD Thomas 33 T_nbridge 2a 447

But I cannot find anything in Wales that fits right up to when he would be 100 (if WE are right) and 111 if Michael is.