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Hi Ginny,
Thanks for those - as Ancestry immigration stuff is free this week, I looked through all of them and of course you're right that it's impossible to tell if any of them are her! I did look through the other passengers to see if her daughter Letitia or her mother also Letitia were on the same ship - but no luck.
Barry

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Miss Emily Dunn
Name: Miss Emily Dunn
Birth Date: abt 1864
Age: 28
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 24 May 1892
Port of Arrival: Glasgow, Scotland
Ship Name: Anchoria
Search Ship Database: View the 'Anchoria' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: No owner or agent listed
Official Number: 70476

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Emily Dunn
Name: Emily Dunn
Birth Date: abt 1868
Age: 23
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 13 May 1891
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Teutonic
Search Ship Database: View the 'Teutonic' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: White Star Line
Official Number: 96332

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Emily Johnson <<<<Spinster
Name: Emily Johnson
Birth Date: abt 1865
Age: 27
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 12 Nov 1892
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Umbria
Search Ship Database: View the 'Umbria' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: No owner or agent listed
Official Number: 91159

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Emelie Johnson
Name: Emelie Johnson
Birth Date: abt 1863
Age: 29
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 10 Dec 1892
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Britannic
Search Ship Database: View the 'Britannic' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: No owner or agent listed
Official Number: 69368

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Emma Johnson <<Spinster
Name: Emma Johnson
Birth Date: abt 1863
Age: 28
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 5 Dec 1891
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Etruria
Search Ship Database: View the 'Etruria' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: No owner or agent listed
Official Number: 91187



Theres no way to tell if any of these are her

Hi Ginny and Dee,
Dee, you're right in that I'm looking for Thomas crossing the Atlantic in either direction between 1880 and 1888. His American daughter Letitia was born in New York to Emily Dunn sometime between 1885 and 1888 depending on which census (UK 1891 or various US censuses) you believe.
I'm also looking for Emily going from New York to Liverpool before her marriage to Thomas at St. Peter's, Liverpool on 9th June 1893. She should be Emily Johnson but could be Dunn, Judge or even Bishop which was her mother's maiden name!
Thanks again for any help you can give.
Barry

Hi Quoy,
Thanks for that, but I think it's not Thomas's daughter, she was born in 1873, which makes the age wrong. She also married Francis Hawkins in 1894.
Thanks anyway
Barry

Hi Ginny,

think we're looking for Thomas Judge leaving for the US as a steward sometime between 1879 and the birth of the USA daughter (sorry her names slipped my mind).

I haven't had any luck finding him.

Soz Barry, Ive lost the plot with this one!

Can you summarise what we are looking for now, Ive read your thread again and still cant get my head around it :-S

Hello Barry

www.ellisisland.org
free just register

found these posting just incase

First Name: Bertha
Last Name: Judge
Ethnicity: Great Britain, British
Last Place of Residence:
Date of Arrival: Sep 19, 1921
Age at Arrival: 45y Gender: F Marital Status: U
Ship of Travel: Baltic
Port of Departure: Liverpool
Manifest Line Number: 0022
it say's she is a stewardess


First Name: Bertha
Last Name: Judge
Ethnicity: Great Britain, English
Last Place of Residence: Quebec, Canada
Date of Arrival: May 07, 1923
Age at Arrival: 47y Gender: F Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Fort Victoria
Port of Departure: Hamilton, Bermuda
Manifest Line Number: 0001

Thanks Chris,
I only have 'Essentials' on Ancestry at the moment, so couldn't look up shipping lists on there, but I see all their immigration stuff is free for the next week, so I'll see what else I can find!
I haven't been able to find Thomas on the 1871 and 1881 censuses - his two sisters are with their mother and stepfather (Thomas Davis) in 1871 but not him. I think that must be him in your last post, so that's why he's not on the 1881. I haven't found any children for him and Bertha between Percy Alfred born Dec Q 1880 in Dover and Maud Emily born 26 Feb 1885 in Bootle, so he may have stayed in the USA or been at sea during that time.
Barry

Name: Thos Judge
Arrival Date: 28 Mar 1881
Birth Year: abt 1852
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: English
Place of Origin: England
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Destination: United States of America
Port of Arrival: New York
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States
Ship Name: City of Richmond

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957


As Bertha is alone on 1881, have you got Thomas on it? (without reading through 'Thread', apologies if already on) not sure of above, says Labourer.

Outgoing Passenger Lists start at 1890 - 1960 (Find My Past) not sure about Crew, sometimes they are on above New York Lists.

Chris :)

Hello again Dee, Chris, Ginny and mgnv,
Just a quick update - I now have Maud Emily Judge's birth cert. and her mother was Bertha, Thomas's first wife. Thomas's occupation is 'Steward' and as they were living in Bootle, I think this means he worked on ships out of Liverpool, probably going to New York, which is how he hooked up with Emily while still married to Bertha.
The shipping lists only seem to be for passengers. Does anyone know where I can find crew lists?
Barry

Thanks Chris - have received them
Barry

Ok Baz, can see them, and marriage for Stephen...will send them in pm if you like, so as not to clog up Thread...

Chris :)

(just getting 'eats', then will do!)

Thanks Ginny and Chris,
I have Stephen Henry Judge marrying Clara Cook Jun Q 1900
Children:
Thomas Henry b. Jun Q 1901 Cherry Hinton
Alice Maud b. Jun Q 1902 Cherry Hinton
Arthur Harvey b. Dec Q 1903 Cherry Hinton
Barry

Sorry Baz, can only do same as Ginny, some Kent Baptisms are on FMP, but not yours, lol.

Another time, can send children of Stephen Henry, Cambridge, don't want to overload you!.

Chris :)

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Bertha Anne Elizabeth Judge
Name: Bertha Anne Elizabeth Judge
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1875
Baptism Date: 1 Aug 1875
Father's name: Thomas William Judge
Mother's name: Bertha Judge
Parish or Poor Law Union: Notting Hill St Clement
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Stephen Henry Judge
Name: Stephen Henry Judge
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1875
Baptism Date: 1 Aug 1875
Father's name: Thomas William Judge
Mother's name: Bertha Judge
Parish or Poor Law Union: Notting Hill St Clement
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Thomas William Judge
Name: Thomas William Judge
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1877
Baptism Date: 21 Jan 1877
Father's name: Thomas Judge
Mother's name: Bertha Judge
Parish or Poor Law Union: Notting Hill St Clement
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about John Albert Judge
Name: John Albert Judge
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1879
Registration district: Eastry
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 933

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Percy Alfred Judge
Name: Percy Alfred Judge
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1880
Registration district: Dover
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 905

You need the birth certificates for the last two to identify the parents as they do not come under the London baptisms

Hi Chris,
Many thanks for the baptisms which also gave me the birth dates which I didn't have.
I thought at first it cleared up which children were Bertha's and which were Emily's, but then on the 1891 census Bertha is still with Thomas and Maud and Cecil are also there. I had thought at least Maud could have been Emily's.
Could you have a look for baptisms of Thomas and Bertha's other children please:
Stephen Henry b. 1.08.1875 Notting Hill
Thomas W b. 21.01.1877 Notting Hill
John Albert b. Mar Q 1879 Deal Kent
Percy Alfred b. Dec Q 1880 Dover Kent, died 1884 Essex
Thanks again
Barry

Thanks Ginny,
Laetitia Juge on the Etruria in 1891 could have been Letitia Dunn. The John A Judge could be John Albert b. 1879 Deal Kent. However I don't have a Henrietta.
Sorry I was a bit vague about what I wanted look ups for. The Dunn's and Judge's seem to have travelled back and forth across the Atlantic.
Could you have a look please for Emily travelling from USA to England prior to her marriage to Thomas 9 June 1893. She could have travelled as Johnson, Dunn or even Dunn Judge. Could you also see who was travelling with her.
There is a possibility she had been in England and gone back as I suspect Maud Emily Judge b.26 Feb 1885 in Bootle Lancs was hers and not Bertha's. She must have been in the US in between as she married Hans Johnson on 15 March 1891 - I wonder what happened to him!
Thanks again
Barry

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 16

Month: May

Year: 1894

Forenames: Cecil Stanley

Surname: JUDGE

Relationship: of

Father forenames: Thomas William

Fathers occupation: licensed victualler

Mother forenames: Emily

Birth Day: 10

Birth Month: May

Birth Year: 1890

Abode: of 76 Tenison Rd

Place: Cambridge, St Barnabas
Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 16

Month: May

Year: 1894

Forenames: Maud Emily

Surname: JUDGE

Relationship: of

Father forenames: Thomas William

Fathers occupation: licensed victualler

Mother forenames: Emily

Birth Day: 26

Birth Month: Feb

Birth Year: 1885

Abode: of 76 Tenison Rd

Place: Cambridge, St Barnabas

County: Cambridgeshire,England

County: Cambridgeshire,England


(just adding for your notes!, ignore if you have them, four at same time)

Chris :)


Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 16

Month: May

Year: 1894

Forenames: Arthur Harvey

Surname: JUDGE

Relationship: of

Father forenames: Thomas William

Fathers occupation: licensed victualler

Mother forenames: Emily

Birth Day: 14

Birth Month: Jun

Birth Year: 1892

Abode: of 76 Tenison Rd

Place: Cambridge, St Barnabas

County: Cambridgeshire,England




Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 16

Month: May

Year: 1894

Forenames: Frank Harold

Surname: JUDGE

Relationship: of

Father forenames: Thomas William

Fathers occupation: licensed victualler

Mother forenames: Emily

Birth Day: 10

Birth Month: Sep

Birth Year: 1894

Abode: of 76 Tenison Rd

Place: Cambridge, St Barnabas

County: Cambridgeshire,England

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 15


Month: Apr

Year: 1896

Forenames: Walter Dunn

Surname: JUDGE

Relationship: of

Father forenames: Thomas William

Fathers occupation: licensed victualler

Mother forenames: Emily

Birth Day: 24

Birth Month: Mar

Birth Year: 1896

Abode: of The Salisbury Tenison Rd

Place: Cambridge, St Barnabas

County: Cambridgeshire,England


Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 31

Month: Mar

Year: 1897

Forenames: Annie

Surname: JUDGE

Relationship: of

Father forenames: Thomas William

Fathers occupation: publican

Mother forenames: Emily

Birth Day: 2

Birth Month: Mar

Birth Year: 1897

Abode: of 19 East Road

Place: Cambridge, St Barnabas

County: Cambridgeshire,England

I dont suppose this is Letitia Dunn?

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Laetitia Juge
Name: Laetitia Juge
Birth Date: abt 1840
Age: 51
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 10 Oct 1891
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Etruria
Search Ship Database: View the 'Etruria' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: No owner or agent listed
Official Number: 91187

Travelling with: Henrietta and John A Judge

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941
about Emily Judge
Name: Emily Judge
Probate Date: 7 Oct 1927
Death Date: 25 Aug 1927
Death Place: Chelmsford, Essex, England
Registry: London

To Sidney James Ballard, solicitors clerk £925 8s 4d


New York City Deaths, 1892-1902
about Letitia Dunn
Name: Letitia Dunn
Birth Date: abt 1840
Age: 55
Death Date: 21 Oct 1895
Death Place: New York, New York
Certificate Number: 36284



Im a bit lost as to what bits of info that you want so you'll have to be specific and I'll search for you?