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If he died on New Years Eve 1962, the death would be registered in 1963.
Was it in Salford, or Manchester, or where?
Thanks

Could you buy some birth and marriage certificates (and death) so that we can work backwards with certainty?
Your parents' marriage, their births, their parents' marriages, etc etc.
Thanks.

OK thanks.

I've tried for 2 years to fathom this problem out with no luck. Every member of the family over 70 who is still alive gives me different names for the same people so it's difficult to know which is correct.
What I have found out recently and checked out is that William Chapman's sister "Ninny" as she was called married into the Hammond family. They had a daughter called Emily who married into the Lomas family. I've traced this info back as far as I can and it only gives her mothers maiden name as Chapman no 1st names, so I'm stuck again.
Williams middle name is a mystery, my Uncle was called after him, Raymond Tranter Rowlands, I've tried tracing it back that way - dead end.
My grandmother Ellen Chapman the same thing cannot find her birth certificate. Some family say she was born in Salford but others say Sheerness, can't find anything either way.
Thanks for your help so far:-)

You can't hope to make accurate progress unless you invest in certs.

Hi Patchem
William died in Manchester, Leaf Street Hulme. At the time he was living with his daughter Mary, who was a caretaker at a bank and lived above it. I remember his very well as I used to get his tobacco for him every week & take it to him on a saturdays, I was 10 or 11 at the time.
I have traced both my Dad & mothers sides as far back as I can go but, my Dad gave me some false information which resulted in 6 months of work going down the drain.
There was another Chapman family living is Salford at the time of Williams supposed birth & I followed that line which turned out to be wrong.
1 of the posts earlier shows this Chapman family so I know that it's not correct.
My Aunt who's 80 & still alive (Mary's daughter) is 100% sure that his children were born in Sheerness, the reason is that the 2 sisters didn't speak for years because Mary accused my gran Ellen of pushing her off a washed up log on the beach at sheerness causing Mary to cut herself badly on some metal embedded in the log which caused infection. whch resulted in Mary having a disfigured hand for the rest of her life. My gran apparently denied this.
With regard to the BMD's I am a member of Ancestry also & have found some BMD's on there which are correct, I always come to a dead stop when it comes to Chapman.
Thanks again for your help

@Flick.

Thanks for that.
I have certs going back as far as my Grandmother Ellen Rowlands (Chapman) but as far back as I have gone it only states her mothers maiden name as Chapman.
Other certs that I have for other family members give their mothers reals maiden names.
Surely it can't be that a Chapman married another Chapman - different family?
It's a complete mystery to me.
Regards

I repeat........ask Mary what her mother's DOB was...........

And please say why you think William was born in 1869........do you have any documentary evidence to support that statement?

The only death in the Manchester area which is remotely close to your idea of when he died makes his birth ten years later.

You refer to certs for Ellen........which are they?

And what info do they contain?

What do you mean by 'real' maiden name?

What other sort is there?

@Flick,

Example my Grans mother's maiden name is down as Chapman, surely this is her married name -no?
My mother, on my birth certificate it's down as Higgins which is correct, not Rowlands which is her married name.
On some of the databases I've accessed the maiden names of some of my family members give their married name as their maiden name surely this cannot be correct it's a mistake in the entry.
MY fathers details show his mothers maiden name as Chapman not Rowlands which was her married name!
Regards

@Flick again,

My Great Great Grandfather William was 83 in 1962 when he died which makes his dob as 1879.
Unless my maths are wrong:-)
Regards

Exactly.........your original post says 1869!!!

William.............

I think you are confusing records on line with certs.............

Can you just answer one question with a 'yes' or 'no'

Do you have the certificate for the birth of Ellen Chapman?

What I have noticed in the 2 years of my family research is that the actual dob may not be exactly the same as the enrty in the records, I have notcied that the only give the quarter and not the month.
I have also been told that in some cases the when a census was carried out a lot of people were illiterate & the census taker wrote in the names as he thought they should be spelled, hence errors in the entries for 1st & surnames.
I have found this in some cases when I get certs for family members that are now dead, but were born in the 40's 50's & 60's.
Regards all

@Flick no I can't find a refernce to it, the one I had is wrong.

@Flick

That's why I am asking for help, I'm completely stuck.

Sorry, but I can't go any further with this.......you don't seem able to differentiate between certs and indexes

If you ever decide to purchase the 1933 marriage cert, come back to us with some factual details about William Chapman.

@Flick

As my email says, the marriage cert for William Chapman & Lillian Rowlands doesn't give us any leads. It only says he was a widower.
The dob is suspect, doesn't match up with what we already know from his age at death. Which says about 1869.
Maybe he wasn't telling the truth about his age when he married Lillian.

I don't want to exasperate anyone, I was just asking for help.
Regards

you do not say who and when William married the first time

is this a coincidence?

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1907
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
CHAPMAN William TRANTER Ellen Salford St Bartholomew Salford C43/11/496

as Flick said - if he was 83 when he died he was born in 1879 NOT 1869

please can yo tell us where you found William's age at death

that 1962 reg cannot reasonably be him if he died in New Year's Eve.His death would not have been registered until at least 1st Jan 1963 therefore making the reg mar qtr 1963

what age does he give on the certificate of his marriage to lillian

Emily Hammond:
Marriages Jun 1924
Hammond Emily Lomas Salford 8d 131
Lomas Henry Hammond Salford 8d 131

You need to apply for this certificate, pay the money, and get the names of the Fathers, and Emily's age.

If you know when Emily was born, have you applied for that birth certificate to find her parents names.

To get any certificate:
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/Certificates.html

Just because someone spent their childhood in Sheerness does not mean they were born there. They could have moved there at a young age.

Thanks for the messages William. I closed down after i had posted the census info last night so I have just read through the thread to catch up.

This family seem to be a catalogue of coincidences. We have the name Tranter already being the maiden name of Ellen who maried the William Chapman I posted.
Tracing William back it seems he was called Travis. The only problem is that there is no Reginald and no Peter so I'm not convinced that this is the correct family.

William Travis
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Son
Father's name: William Travis
Mother's name: Mary Travis
Gender: Male
Where born: Salford, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 6 Windsor St
Household Members: Name Age
William Travis 34
Mary Travis 38
Robert Travis 7
William Travis 3
George Travis
William A. Wood 26
Amy Wood 23
Jonathan Wood 3
William Wood 1