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Thank you Fan

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As you grandfather is stated born in October 1903 on his death cert then only births reg in the Dec Quarter would need to be looked at I would say...
Concentrating the search in the east end of London there are these

Births Jun 1903
GOLDSTEIN Harry St. Geo. East 1c 344

Births Mar 1904
Goldstein Harry St. Geo. East 1c 346

I would submit them to the GRO without ref numbers and then you can state fathers/mothers name .If they do not find it you will get ALL your money back...But it does take up to 3 wks for it to be done that way..
Other than that you can try phoning the reg office itself to see if they will have a look?

Hi! I have now received three birth certificates.

1..Births Dec 1902 GOLDSTEIN Sophia Hackney 1b 529
The details supplied on the certificate has told me that Sophia was born on the 1st September 1902 at 69 North Street, South Hackney. Fathers name was given as Joseph Goldstein, a cabinet maker, journeyman. The name of Sohia's mother is stated as Rosettan Harriett Goldstein, formely Whitford (date of registration was 6th Oct 1902).

2..Births Dec 1909 Goldstein John Shoreditch 1c 32
John's birth certificate has told me that he was born John Goldstein on 16th November 1909 at 26 Redvers Street (The address the Gold family were living according to the 1911 census). Fathers name etc was stated as Joseph Goldstein , a costermonger. John's mothers name was given as Rose Goldstein, formerly Whitford. I think that this certificate confirms thsat i have the correct family in my research.

3.. With regards with Harry's birth certificate and there being so many Harry Goldstein's born about the time I chose to order the closest one I thought would be the more likely according to the 1911 census as being aged 8. I plucked for Edmonton 1903 and this was completely wrong as this Harry Goldstein's parents were given as Morris Goldstein and Bertha Goldstein, formerly Teamen.

Is it possible that anyone can please advise me how I could narrow my search down regarding the birth certificate for Harry (Gold) Goldstein.

I have now ordered a birth certificate for Birth jun 1915 ..Goldstein Margaret....Whitford, Shoreditch 1c ..46. And am hoping that Margaret was a daughter born to Joseph and Rosina after the 1911 census and who possible married a Mr Hards and was the M Hards (daughter) who was the informant on Joseph's death certificate.

I have also ordered the marriage certificate for Joseph Goldstein and Rose Whitford , both, Mile End, vol 1c.. page 46.

Again help and advise regarding how I could narrow my search down the birth certificate for Harry (Gold) Goldstein will be very much appreciated.

Hello everyone. Hope your christmas went well. I have now received the death certificates regarding Joseph and Rosina Harriett Goldstein.

Joseph's tells me that he died on the 22nd December 1938 at 9 Rosemary Street ( the date I have on my rememberence cards). His occupation at time of death was given as a cabinets makers assistant, aged 70. The address and informant and present at death was M Hards (daughter) of 9 Rosemary Street, Islington.

Rosina's death certificate tells me that she died on the 10th October 1941, aged 63, at Gun House, Great Alne, R9, (the date which I have on my rememberence cards). Rosina's occupation was given as the widow of Joseph Goldstein, a carpenter. The informants details was given as J Goldstein (son) of 7 Chisholm Road, Stoke Newington. London, N16.

Any help and advice you are able to give me allowing me to take this forward would be hugely appreciated. With regards...

you're welcome

it might be worth you having a look at the following website which specialises in Jewish family tree research and records

http://www.jewishgen.org

there is also a public tree on ancestry belonging to "markbasham1" which has Abraham Goldstein and Maria and their son Joel (who might be Joseph looking at the birth years given in the 1871 and 81 censuses), the owner seems to possibly be a descendant of Maria's sister

Your welcome George.
When you get the death certs it would be nice to know the result and if you wish to come back and we can try to aid you some more on this please do come back here and not start a new post as much info is here already that may be able to help further..
Just sorry we have not been able to pinpoint Harrys birth.But as Maureen says,,there are a lot in and around the area at that time.
Good luck,Merry Christmas and a happy New Year

Fan

I am quite happy to run with the idea that Joseph and Rosina Harriet Gold were buried in the registered name of Goldstein. I have checked with the central database for uk burials and it does in deed list Joseph Goldstein as being buried om 29th December 1938 at Islington cemetary and gives his address at the time as 9 Rosemary Street. My memorial cards tell me he passed away on th 22nd December of that year.

This would correspond with the reference:
Deaths Dec 1938
Goldstein Joseph 70 Islington 1b 269


Rosina Harriett Goldstein was also listed as being buried at Islinton cemetary and she was buried on 16th Oct 1941. Rosina's abode was given as Gun House, Great Alne, Alcester (Warwickshire). My memorial cards again tell me that she passed away on October 10th 1941.

Again this would correspond with the reference:
Name: Rosina H Goldstein
Death Registration Month/Year: 1941
Age at death (estimated): 63
Registration district: Alcester
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 1234

I can only assume and finding no other death references that Rosina at some point in time moved to Alcester (either because she was ill or due to the 2nd ww) and that when she died she was moved to Islington to be buried near or with her husband Joseph.

I have spoken to my uncle Raymond Gold (Harry's son) and he is of the same opinion as me that the dates, names etc are to much of a coincidence not to be one of the same.

Tomorrow I will order Joseph's and Rosina's death certificates based on those references and hopefully they will reveal a little bit more for me to progress once they arrive. I should imagine in the new year because of the christmas period. Thank you all once again to all those who have put in their time and effort in helping me and goodnight.

possible marriage of Abraham and Maria

edit found a better marriage if brother in law on 1871 census is correct

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about Abraham Goldstein Name: Abraham Goldstein
Year of Registration: 1866
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: City of London
County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 200


on the same page is

Name: Maria Davies
Year of Registration: 1866
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: City of London
County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 200

and 1871 census
Person: GOLDSTEIN, Maria
Address: Fort St, Old Artillery Ground

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

GOLDSTEIN, Abraham Head M 26 1845 Poland
GOLDSTEIN, Maria Wife F 24 1847 Middlesex
GOLDSTEIN, Joel Son M 2 1869 Middlesex
DAVIS, Louis Brother-In-Law M 13 1858 Middlesex
ABLETHORP, Mary A* Servant F 14 1857 Middlesex

occupation is Tailor

and the 1881 census
Person: GOLDSTEIN, Maria
Address: 287, Oxford Street, Mile End Old Town

Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Disability Where Born

GOLDSTEIN, Abraham Head Married M 37 1844 Tailor (Foreign) Poland
GOLDSTEIN, Maria Wife Married F 34 1847 Middx City
GOLDSTEIN, Joseph Son Single M 12 1869 Spitalfields Middlesex
GOLDSTEIN, Racheal Daughter Single F 8 1873 Spitalfields Middlesex
GOLDSTEIN, Davy Son Single M 7 1874 Spitalfields Middlesex
GOLDSTEIN, Sophia Daughter Single F 6 1875 Whitechapel Middlesex
GOLDSTEIN, Hashu Son Single M 2 1879 York
GOLDSTEIN, Jane Daughter Single F 0 1881 Whitechapel Middlesex

a possible for Joseph's mother on 1911 census

Person: GOLDSTEIN, Maria
Address: 5 Ropery Street Bow

Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born

GOLDSTEIN, Maria Head Widow F 64 1847 London City
GOLDSTEIN, Jane Daughter Single F 30 1881 Dressmaker London St Georges in East

she's also filled in the marriage details eventhough she's a widow, it says married 46 years, 18 children born to marriage (phew) 8 still living 10 have died by 1911.

The Joseph Goldstein that Maureen posted on 1901 census (Cabinet maker)and said was a barman on 1891..He does not show on 1911 and no death for him,is he "your"Joseph maybe,having dropped the Stein for some reason,maybe due to war looming and anti german feelings in the air?..He is born same area and time as Joseph Gold on 1911...Also says he is married on 1901 and not living with wife,same as 1911 Joseph Gold..

1891

GOLDSTEIN, Maria Head Widow F 44 1847 Tailoress
Aldgate
London
GOLDSTEIN, Joseph Son Single M 22 1869 Barman
Spitalfields
London

Victoria Goldstein on 1901 is certainly the same age as Ethel on 1911..And again they are not living with husband/father

Can't find who?

And gone on 1911?
Well I cant find him..Nor a death for him

The 1901 Joseph Goldstein is a barman in 1891.

Maureen

I've been looking at this on and off for ages.......I thought from the beginning that Gold was probably an anglicised name

Births Dec 1909 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Goldstein John Shoreditch 1c 32

This one is a married cabinet maker living with his mother:
1901 Ancestry
Name: Joseph Goldstein
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Maria Goldstein
Gender: Male
Where born: Spitalfields, London, England
Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul Bow Common
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Sub-registration district: Mile End, Old Town, Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Maria Goldstein 54
Joseph Goldstein 32
Henry Goldstein 22
Jane Goldstein 20
Fanny Goldstein 19
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 338; Folio: 33; Page: 2.

Maureen

You guys are moving really fast. Finding it difficult to keep up with you all. Have been told that there is a Jewish connection?? Also not up with religion mysefl. Was told a while ago that the Gold's married people within the christian faith?? I guess it would be law for all religions to register their children born in the UK. Thank you MaureenNY I will certainly look at the 1901 census regarding your lead and give everything some careful thought.

Mmmm-there's certainly enough Harry's in the area.

Births Jun 1915 (>99%)
Goldstein Margaret J Whitford Shoreditch 1c 46

It's not too cold here,although the wind makes up for it. Spending Xmas in New Orleans-it has to be warmer there.

Births Sep 1909 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Goldstein Rose Sophia Holborn 1b 592


and buried also Islington 1910 Nov. (deceased online)
between census.

Chris :)