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Emma's baptism (DOB given as 11th July 1836)

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Emma Maria Waters
Name: Emma Maria Waters
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1836
Baptism Date: 29 Jul 1836
Father's name: John Waters - Clerk
Mother's name: Rachel Waters
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George in the East
Borough: Tower Hamlets

Helen/Ellen in 1851 with sister Emma M:

1851 England Census
about Emma M Waters
Name: Emma M Waters
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: John Waters
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: St George, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St George in The East
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: St George In The East
Sub-registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 124
Piece: 1549
Folio: 205
Page Number: 28
Household Members: Name Age
John Waters 59
George Waters 25
Ellen E Waters 20
Emma M Waters 14


Emma was a witness at Ellen's marriage. She seems to have lied about her age (marriage reg only gives "full age")

The John H Cochrane in the 1861 has POB of England; the one in the 1881 has Wales as he does in 1851. Also, on the marriage reg his father's occupation is given as Civil Engineer. So, it lools as if the John H Cochran in the 1861 census is the same one who married Emma Waters.

We need to find the connection between Emma and Helen Robertson nee Waters.

Posting the 1861 from page 1 (to save having to go back to check!)

1861 Scotland Census
about Alexander I Robertson
Name: Alexander I Robertson
Age: 9 MO
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relationship: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 652/3
Registration district: Old Monkland Eastern District
Civil parish: Old Monkland
Town: Farms Cottages
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Greenside Cottage
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 14
Line: 11
Roll: CSSCT1861_118
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Cochrane 37 Civil Engineer, b England
Jane Cochrane 38 b England
Joseph Cochrane 19
John H Cochrane 14
Mary Cochrane 12
Thomas B Cochrane 10
Anne M Cochrane 6
William Cochrane 5
Jane Cochrane 1
Helen E Robertson 27 b England
Alexander I Robertson 9 MO
Elizabeth Falloon 16

PM received from Graham:

Have seen the 1881 Census for 81 West Street ,Tendring,Harwich,Essex which lists John H Cochran age 36 Emma Cochran age 40(wife) three children and a servant....I.did receive from a contact in Scotland that a John Henry Cochran married Emma M Waters Dec 12 1876 at St Stephens,Poplar Mddx(bride's father John Waters,groom's father Joseph Cochran..wonder if any of this fits in with the Cochran family members on that 1861 Census!!?
Regards
Graham

Potty
Thanks for your help yet again !! have printed off Marriage doc April 4 1905 & note that Joseph Robertson(father) deceased and mother Ellen Elizabeth shown on cert but she sadly died May 5 1905.

Note that Catherine & Joseph Robertson signed as Winesses.This could mean that Catherine was wife of Minnie's brother Joseph or brothers Alexander &,Robert ( also possible further sister !)
Graham

There is a marriage for a Minnie Emma Robertson in Tradeston in 1905. sorry, I do not have any credits to view it.

Minnie still unmarried in 1901:

1901 Scotland Census
about Minnie E Robertson
Name: Minnie E Robertson
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1869
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Mother's name: Ellen E Robertson
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/13
Registration district: Tradeston
Civil Parish: Glasgow Pollockshields
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 181 St Andrews Rd
ED: 35
Household schedule number: 19
Line: 19
Roll: CSSCT1901_319
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen E Robertson 64
Minnie E Robertson 32

From familysearch (will also be on scotlandspeople):

MINNIE EMMA ROBERTSON Pedigree
Birth: 13 FEB 1869 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Parents:
Father: JOSEPH ROBERTSON Family
Mother: ELLEN ELIZABETH WATERS

ROBERT WILLIAM ROBERTSON Pedigree
Birth: 16 MAR 1872 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Parents:
Father: JOSEPH ROBERTSON Family
Mother: ELLEN ELISABETH WATERS

This census is posted on page 1 but posting it again to save having to keep going back:

1881 Scotland Census
about Robert Robertson
Name: Robert Robertson
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relationship: Son
Mother's name: Ellen Robertson
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/13
Registration district: Tradeston
Civil Parish: Glasgow Govan
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 26 Airlie Terrace
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 56
Household schedule number: 14
Line: 24
Roll: cssct1881_250
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Robertson 46 b England
Charlotte Robertson 16 b Baillestone, Lanarkshire
Joseph Robertson 14 b Glasgow
Minnie Robertson 12
Ada Robertson 10 bGlasgow
Robert Robertson 9 b Glasgow

Hi Graham, nice to see you back! Did you get Joseph and Ellen's marriage cert or the Alexander Robertson death cert?

Seeking any info on Robert William Robertson b 16 March 1872 in Glasgow have birth details 644/09 09 052 son of Joseph & Ellen Elizabeth(Waters) Robertson. Robert was believed to be a mariner who may have gone to Australia.Am still searching for birth/death records of Minnie Emma and her father and grandfather Joseph & Alexander Robertson

rootgather
On the suggestion of person I spoke to at Glasgow C ity Council I contacted New Register House earlier and was told"send some details" so have posted off this am..had done. likewise with Mitchell Oct .10 but to date have had no reply..Ellen died May 5 1905 @ 10 Nithsdale Drive,Glasgow have Stat Death 644/130158,Tradeston shown as Widow of Joseph and note that her son J Robertson,78 Govan Hill,Glasgow was the informant of her death .. have not had any luck with cemetery records..so will have to see what answers I get ..if any!
Regards

Graham - I don't think that contacting Register House will help. All they can do is search the same records that are available on Scotlandspeople.

Do you have a date of death for Ellen please? ( I have forgotten where we were with her). If she lived in Tradeston when she died then the most likely cemetery would be Craigton Cemetery. If you could locate her burial place (by searching cemetery records) and a lair number then it may be that the City Council would charge less as the search would be much simpler. You would be giving them the name of the cemetery and a lair number to check who was buried.


I am not sure that the Mitchell offer a service of cemetery searches as I have only ever done this in person.

Ellen

Have had a reply from Glasgow City Council to tell me that they now charge £62 for a search ! and suggested I contact Mitchell Library( have already done so 10/10/2010 but as yet had no reply ) and Register House ,Edinburgh....just wonder if it is worth tryihg them
Regards

Graham

Yes, I agree about the tradition of using maiden surnames as christian names. There is also the Scottish naming tradition:

Scottish Naming Traditions
During the 1700s-1800s, those of Scottish ancestry often used the following pattern to name their children:

MALES

Eldest son - named after his paternal grandfather
Second son - after his maternal grandfather
Third son - after his father
Fourth son - after his father's eldest brother

FEMALES

Eldest daughter - after her maternal grandmother
Second daughter - after her paternal grandmother
Third daughter - after her mother
Fourth daughter - after her mother's eldest sister

Sometimes the order is reversed -- the eldest son is named after his maternal grandfather, etc

Joseph & Ellen's Children

Alexander - named for father's father
Joseph - named for father - not named for mother' father
Robert - named for father's oldest brother ?

So, Joseph and Ellen don't seem to have followed the pattern for their sons. Shame, because it might have given a clue to his mother' first name.

Potty

Am waiting for info on this death record.. meantime working on the Scottish tradition of the use of maiden surnames as second christian names have tried to trace two, viz Harrison & Ward..My father,Harry Harrison Duncan b1896 ... 1871 Census Wallsall 15 Lower Hull Level shows:
Isabella Duncan(his grandmother) Head. 30( b Castle Douglas)
Phanuel son 9
William S " 7
John Eadie " 5
Mary Isabella Shaw neice 12
Isabella Harrison " 17 Milliner b Philadelphia US
this suggest to me that she was the daughter of Isabella's sister who married a Harrison

Ward has appeared twice...My father's sister Charlotte Ward Duncan b1887(Leeds) also !!
Ada Ward Robertson b 1870 (Glasgow) daughter of Joseph ...the name Eadie pops up again elsewhere but thats another story!!
I value your opinion
Regards

Found on LDS 1880 Census Head Jane Harrison(mother)
Isabella S Harrison age 26 Dressmaker Single b1854 P
Mother & Father both born Scotland
Graham

Graham

Given the date you have for Alexander's death and the date of the wrecking of the Euxine, I would think that it is highly likely that the Euxine was Alexander's ship.

The cert for the death record I posted above might give you his age and home address.

Potty

seem to have lost that report but remember that there was a brig totally wrecked off Lytham laden with beans and a helpful lady at Lancashire Records put me onto Fleetwood Museum so have rattled off an email to them asking if they hold wreck records and gave details re the body picked up in Fleetwood district in the hope that they can at least confirm whether we have the right one this time!! ... perhaps they may give a hint as to the name of the vessel he was on even his age and home address ever hopeful
Regards

Graham, I have had a look at your thread on FTF and I think you are wrong about the ship being the Stella - if you read the article Elaine posted, the Stella was wrecked off the east coast.

This site:

http://www.marine-heritage.connectfree.co.uk/morcbaywrecks2.html

has this wreck for the 12/11/1861:

Euxine 12/11/1861 A Brig stranded on Salthouse Bank in force 9 winds.