General Chat

Here we go again with wild speculation based on nothing much and newspaper reports and broad judgments based on little or nothing. Like it or not, we DON'T know what really happened or what the FULL situation is, nor do we know for certain WHAT we would actually do in any given situtation. I agree with Nell that it's a tragedy for ALL concerned, and also say that nothing is to be gained by speculation, finger-pointing and blame and insinuating all sorts of other potential wrong-doing and misdeeds. None of us lead perfect lives. Now people are outraged because the dead man's family is not merging into the background quietly saying 'what did he expect, it serves him right'. Did anyone really expect that? The police may have had the 'right' to shoot, but the family have the 'right' not to be happy about it.

I guess that everyone here would feel a little different if it was one of their friends or relatives who had been shot. You have to have compassion for his family. Arthur, i agree with you. Ann Glos

Ann from Glos. Why did they let him get on a bus...........good question, possibly to see where he was going? I was stopped by a police van one evening about 1030pm. it had caught me up,(on a narrowed carriageway) and thinking they wanted to come by, moved over, but no, they stayed behind. I stopped at a roundabout, they followed, went round three other roundabouts, a left turn, then a right turn, THEN they stopped me,( a distance of about 2 1/2 miles in all) 200 yards from my home.They now knew who I was and where I was going....Home. They addressed me by name.then accused me of driving erratically, apparently I had crossed the white line at the side of the road( when I expected them to pass), of course now they had stopped me they could breathalise me.....What a ploy!!! Bob I passed it...hadnt been drinking, but they tried anyway......

On the lunchtime news it was reported that he had had two sets of tools stolen recently and believed someone was out to get him. Maybe he thought the police were the people out to get him as they weren't in uniform. And I repeat if those giving the orders believed he was a bomber why did they let him ride on 2 buses before trying to stop him? Gwynne

I think this incident proves what many have been saying for a long time. The Government of this country needs to take far greater control of its borders and its immigration system. I regret very much that an innocent man has lost his life, but he knew he had been breaking the law by staying here, which was why he ran. As others have said on this thread, if he had returned to his homeland when he should have, he would never have been under suspicion in London and would probably still be alive today. That doesn't account for his being shot, of course, but it was a significant factor. As far as his knowledge of English goes - it concerns me that someone who doesn't understand 'STOP - POLICE!' being shouted at him several times should have been working as an electrician. There are new Regulations now governing electrical installations. Before he took on work of this kind, should he not have had some kind of qualification that proved he knew English well enough to be able to follow instructions relating to electrical installations? Is this another area where our Government is cutting corners? CB >|<

Emmybaby, The man lived in a flat in the same block as an address found by police in papers in one of the bombs that failed to explode. He was on his way to work. The police themselves have said he was entirely innocent of any connection with the bombers and that it was a tragic mistake. Gwynne

The police were wearing jeans and jackets/shirts - plain clothes according to the reports on the BBC. It cannot be justifiable homicide if the man isn't guilty of anything other than having an out of date visa. Accidental death is the most likely, I guess. Gwynne

No, they were in plain clothes. M.

Were the police in uniforrm? ann Glos

Roxanne, I take it you didn't see his grandmother speaking on the News. His grandmother is utterly distraught, there is no doubt that her grief is genuine. She wasn't talking about compensation she was talking about her loss. Other family members are angry as well as grieving and hitting out in all directions, understandably, I think. Gwynne

Gwynne, I believe, according to a newspaper report from the police, the team have been relieved of their 'armed' duties and are distraught over the shooting of an innocent man. Ann Glos

As was printed in the'Daily Mail'today,this man came to London in 2002 as a holidaymaker,he then decided to study English on a nine month course,Question, Did he get a 'Student Visa'to enable him to do so. he then decided to stay here bhecause of the 'Work Opportunities' in London.Again,Did he get a work permit?.It seems he did niether,he was here illegaly,that is probably why he ran. If he had gone home when he should have he would more than likely still be alive.So in fact he contributed to his own death,(However sad and regretful it is) also he contributed to the anguish and nightmares that the Police Officer who shot him in error will have for the rest of his life.No matter how much 'Councelling'he gets it will be with him always,as if it had just happened. I wish him well,he will need all the help he can get. Hal.

Even if this guy can't speak English, even if he did think they were gangsters, even if he was desperate to catch a train...when someone is waving a gun at you and shouting you don't keep running! The Police were within their rights to shoot, if he had got on the train and the train had blown up.....image the outcry then!!! Jacquie xxxx

I've said before that I'll wait for the results of an official inquiry but I am feeling more and more uncomfortable about what happened before this INNOCENT man was shot. Why did the police let him ride on buses before he was challenged? If he was a bomber he could have blown them up but the police didn't intervene then. We don't know how he was challenged but we do know the police were not in uniform. Does anyone really believe he would have run as he did if he knew he was likely to be shot? The police have a very difficult job to do, especially in these times and officers on the ground are responding to orders from higher up and cannot be directly blamed for this incident. I cannot begin to imagine how the officer who shot the man must be feeling. But surely we do need to ask what went wrong here. Because something did and an innocent man is dead. Gwynne

I think people have misunderstood my previous posting, and I have misunderstood theirs. I didn't mean to imply that the police shot this person for any reason other than that they thought he was a serious risk to the public. I agree with their right to do so. The police have stated that this man was not a terrorist and that his being shot was a tragedy. I agree. That's all. nell

They didn't just shoot him for target practice Nell - he was shot because he failed to stop when challenged. Live with it.

Possibly, but I do get cross with the idea that because someone has been on 'the wrong side of the law' somehow its not so bad for them to be shot as if they were goody-twoshoes. Most people are not sinners or saints, just people. I hate this mythologising people into victims or people who got what was coming to them. It's not constructive and achieves nothing. Sorry if I offended anyone, but the fact remains that the police shot someone because they thought he was a terrorist - and he wasn't. This is a tragedy for the dead man, for the police involved and for all of us. nell

Nell, they didn't shoot him because he was a 'scrounger'. They shot him because they thought he was going to blow everyone on the underground up. If I were in the same position, I'm sure I would have done the same. I'd rather shoot one person, than have hundreds of casualties on my conscience.

Slightly melodramatic Nell??? Would you run away from the police for the reasons you gave?? Let's be honest and sweep sentiment out of the window, if this chap had returned to Brazil, where he should have been, he wouldn't have been shot.

His family apparently intend to sue our incompetent police force for vast sums of money which of course will be a huge comfort to help them through their devastating loss. I wonder if his rather vocal cousin will be keeping a lower profile and sorting his own immigration status out?