General Chat

Apparently the Brazilian shot dead at Stockwell had an out of date visa.

Not worth getting shot for. I can only assume he didn't realise they were policemen, and mistook them for gangsters. nell

yeah rite!!! i think the police were within their rights to shoot him and as for parliament,well,they should never have shut down on friday,knowing that the country is in danger!! susie

I guess it's a better reason than nothing. If a person has nothing to feel guilty about, why should they run from police? Especially with everything that's going on at present. He could have felt guilty about working here when he wasn't allowed to, and thought they had found him out. It's the most plausible thing I've heard all weekend.

In the mail, one report said that he had already had his tools stolen twice (he was a Brazilian electrician), his cousin thinks he thought that they were a gang out to get him. Apparently stockwell station is well known for robberies. I do wonder why the police allowed him to get on a bus if they thought he might be the bomber, given that 2 buses had already been targetted. I also realise why the police shot him and, before anyone jumps, I am not criticizing the police. i just think how sad it is for his family, for whom he was intending to provide, and for his girlfriend waiting for him in Brazil. Ann Glos

Apparently he was challenged at a bus stop by officers who identified themselves as police..............

I had not read that Wendy, neither had I read his visa had run out. But he was supposedly working here legally. (according to the mail). trouble is we can only know what the papers feed us and they all seem to come up with a different story. The police were in plain clothes though so i suppose he could have thought they were imposters (playing devil's advocate here). Ann Glos

Certainly removes weight from the 'poor foreigner abroad not understanding what's going on' theory doesn't it. He probably thought he was going to be deported. Yep - just confirmed he was working illegally.

Probably cash in hand work. Easy as an electrician.

Before the police shoot anyone there are plenty of warnings. Firstly he was ordered to stop, twice, which he didn't do.. secondly they informed him they were armed police and to stop, which he didn't do... then they give three seperate warnings that they will open fire, he still didn't stop... so they shot him. He knew what would happen, he understood english... his mistake not the police. I feel for his family but support the police - imagain what could have happened if he had a bomb, they had to make the decision and i think it was the right one! xxx

Are you saying he chose to be shot? As I understand it the police do not have to warn anyone if they think it would be dangerous to do so, and as I wasn't there, I don't know how many times they shouted, what they shouted or whether what they shouted was easy to hear. Loudness isn't the same as clearness. And even if he was a scrounger (which has not been proved) being shot is rather drastic. I do hope nobody here gets accidentally shot, as I am sure we could all find an unpaid parking ticket, or overdue library book to justify it. nell

His family apparently intend to sue our incompetent police force for vast sums of money which of course will be a huge comfort to help them through their devastating loss. I wonder if his rather vocal cousin will be keeping a lower profile and sorting his own immigration status out?

Slightly melodramatic Nell??? Would you run away from the police for the reasons you gave?? Let's be honest and sweep sentiment out of the window, if this chap had returned to Brazil, where he should have been, he wouldn't have been shot.

Nell, they didn't shoot him because he was a 'scrounger'. They shot him because they thought he was going to blow everyone on the underground up. If I were in the same position, I'm sure I would have done the same. I'd rather shoot one person, than have hundreds of casualties on my conscience.

Possibly, but I do get cross with the idea that because someone has been on 'the wrong side of the law' somehow its not so bad for them to be shot as if they were goody-twoshoes. Most people are not sinners or saints, just people. I hate this mythologising people into victims or people who got what was coming to them. It's not constructive and achieves nothing. Sorry if I offended anyone, but the fact remains that the police shot someone because they thought he was a terrorist - and he wasn't. This is a tragedy for the dead man, for the police involved and for all of us. nell

They didn't just shoot him for target practice Nell - he was shot because he failed to stop when challenged. Live with it.

I think people have misunderstood my previous posting, and I have misunderstood theirs. I didn't mean to imply that the police shot this person for any reason other than that they thought he was a serious risk to the public. I agree with their right to do so. The police have stated that this man was not a terrorist and that his being shot was a tragedy. I agree. That's all. nell

I've said before that I'll wait for the results of an official inquiry but I am feeling more and more uncomfortable about what happened before this INNOCENT man was shot. Why did the police let him ride on buses before he was challenged? If he was a bomber he could have blown them up but the police didn't intervene then. We don't know how he was challenged but we do know the police were not in uniform. Does anyone really believe he would have run as he did if he knew he was likely to be shot? The police have a very difficult job to do, especially in these times and officers on the ground are responding to orders from higher up and cannot be directly blamed for this incident. I cannot begin to imagine how the officer who shot the man must be feeling. But surely we do need to ask what went wrong here. Because something did and an innocent man is dead. Gwynne

Even if this guy can't speak English, even if he did think they were gangsters, even if he was desperate to catch a train...when someone is waving a gun at you and shouting you don't keep running! The Police were within their rights to shoot, if he had got on the train and the train had blown up.....image the outcry then!!! Jacquie xxxx

As was printed in the'Daily Mail'today,this man came to London in 2002 as a holidaymaker,he then decided to study English on a nine month course,Question, Did he get a 'Student Visa'to enable him to do so. he then decided to stay here bhecause of the 'Work Opportunities' in London.Again,Did he get a work permit?.It seems he did niether,he was here illegaly,that is probably why he ran. If he had gone home when he should have he would more than likely still be alive.So in fact he contributed to his own death,(However sad and regretful it is) also he contributed to the anguish and nightmares that the Police Officer who shot him in error will have for the rest of his life.No matter how much 'Councelling'he gets it will be with him always,as if it had just happened. I wish him well,he will need all the help he can get. Hal.